My thoughts as well. He is on my list of people I have yet to contact. I will try to reach out to him and if he has any info I can post I will share here.
The premiere date for Suncoast Digest was September 3, 1973, by the way. Here's the listing for it from the Fort Meyers News-Press paper.
Last Edit: Apr 1, 2023 21:25:44 GMT by tapesignal: addition of newspaper clipping
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I believe Suncoast Digest didn’t start airing until late August or early September of 1973 so that narrows the episode window. Someone should scour newspaper archives to find its first broadcast date.
Craig Shilowich, screenwriter of Christine (2016), probably can tell us how he acquired the footage that he used as a reference.
He likely was in touch with the producer of the 10-12 minute segment on Christine that aired on E!’s Blvd of Broken Dreams back in 2007.
When YouTube had a system where you could private message people, I asked the producer of the segment (I believe they are even thanked in Rebecca Hall’s “Christine” during the credits). I asked him questions and he claimed he was the one who had that particular episode converted from its initial 2-inch quadruplex videotape to a, I assume, digital format.
I'm of the personal belief that Christine's footage exists elsewhere besides that master tape under lock and key. Maybe I am wrong, but I think either that guy who posted Christine's suicide audio or the "private collector" who provided the audio to him has a copy of the video footage. Only reason this person or people who have this copy of the footage haven't been brave enough to actually release the video somewhere like Archive.Org is probably out of fear of being sued over it. I'm surprised he(or they) weren't sued over leaking the audio.
Related, I found that person's original excuse when releasing the audio of Christine's on air suicide where he didn't want to release her final statement at the end "out of respect" to be total BS. Not only did he release the full audio a few months later but he posted it online on YouTube where he knew he'd garner interest over it in the first place. If he had "respect" for Christine or her family, he never would've posted the audio at all. It was all just an attention grabber, if you ask me, because that person knew fully well he was baiting all of the people out there who regard that Suncoast Digest footage as a holy grail. Him privatizing the videos of the audio a short time later are a lark too because that person knows fully well thousands of people downloaded copies. It's out there now.
There's also been that rumor floating around for many, many years that someone posted Christine's suicide footage in full to some 'faces of death' thing online and people claim to have seen it back then when it was on some website. It's funny, though, that none of them remember what the name of the website was or even a link to it. There were ways to download and save videos even back in the long, long ago of the birth of the internet. If it's true, somebody or somebodies have the video and know they have it. Maybe they don't want to release a copy either out of fear of getting sued or taking away the holy grail factor to the footage.
Personally, I'd want to see the video footage out of morbid curiosity. Even with that said, I do find Christine Chubbuck's entire story very tragic. The woman had her entire life ahead of her and severe depression made her think of and do what she did. I know what depression feels like, lived with it all of my life, so in a way I can see what made her do what she did.
If we aren't allowed to see Christine's footage of that tragic moment, then I totally think that we should be allowed to see the existing footage of what Christine Chubbuck was like alive and well when she was on WXLT long before she made her fateful decision. Her former co-worker sitting on all of that footage I think is more disrespectful than the reasoning he stated when he flatly said he would never release it. It's basically like erasing any trace of Christine from the face of the planet and making everyone focus on that one dreadful moment instead of letting us see who she was in all of those other moments when she was on the air. All he is doing is keeping us from knowing what she was like as a human being and thus leaving her as an object of macabre interest instead.
“ If we aren't allowed to see Christine's footage of that tragic moment, then I totally think that we should be allowed to see the existing footage of what Christine Chubbuck was like alive and well when she was on WXLT long before she made her fateful decision. Her former co-worker sitting on all of that footage I think is more disrespectful than the reasoning he stated when he flatly said he would never release it. It's basically like erasing any trace of Christine from the face of the planet and making everyone focus on that one dreadful moment instead of letting us see who she was in all of those other moments when she was on the air. All he is doing is keeping us from knowing what she was like as a human being and thus leaving her as an object of macabre interest instead.”
So… much… this. I have more to say to the rest of your post that I promise to respond to later (I just happened to catch it on a random check in on this thread I do every so often, and was surprised to see a new reply after so long) but at the very least I wanted to acknowledge this part of your response. The gentleman refusing to release the SFW footage is, I believe and as you stated, doing what he claims he wants to avoid: leaving those of us interested in the story for one reason or another to focus on the final act as opposed to what SHE wanted to be known for.. not JUST the final act, but as a reporter of straight NON “blood and guts” news. I’d be delighted to see her just do the regular stuff she did throughout her career. It would be very nice to know more of her than just what she’s known for. Thank you for that. As I said, I promise to address more of your post later, but at the very least, you said what needs to be said. Thank you.
You're absolutely very welcome. I'm glad to see someone else identify with what I had to say about the matter. I believe I talked about this topic and said something very similar a number of years ago over on YouTube, where no one paid attention to it.
I'd like to share just why I said what I said about the issue. It all stems back to when that re-creation video of Christine Chubbuck's suicide was originally posted and when the chatter began about whether or not the video was a version of the real deal.
I played the part of personal detective, I decided to do my own private research at the time while the debate was still fresh. We had those in the camp that the footage was totally real, just taken from a secondary camera and then we had the camp who thought the footage was totally staged and gave their reasons why. I watched and re-watched the footage myself, over and over. Looping it. Slowing it down.
I have a family member who actually worked in the television news industry for a few decades and knows some history about how local TV stations back in the 1970s did things. I picked his brain over the matter. He acknowledged that TV stations back then going up to when he was working in local television news did use that time stamp method seen in the re-creation footage. He also acknowledged that some 70's tv stations did have a secondary camera set up to switch over to a projected slide for station identification via a still. However, he debunked the idea that a TV station back then would be recording their news cast on two separate cameras so that kicked out the idea that Christine's suicide would've been recorded on the primary camera in color and then the theorized secondary camera in black and white.
It was during this period of playing amateur detective that I delved into tracking down and reading the complete police report of the incident which included the direct transcript of what Christine said and did during that footage, seeing how the police officers who wrote the report had seen the footage when it was still fresh, and felt that they wouldn't have been lying about what she said just shortly before shooting herself. In the re-creation footage "Christine" says in garbled audio the exact version of final monologue that has been falsely attributed to the real Christine for decades.
Flashing forward briefly to a couple years ago when the audio of Christine's suicide tape was released, her words followed exactly word to word what the police report said that she had said. Also the audio is the exact voice of Christine Chubbuck heard in that brief clip that reporter who worked with her allowed released into that movie made about her, 'Kate Plays Christine'. The suicide audio is real! The only thing that sounds off to me is the gunshot at the end, but maybe I'm not very good at identifying what a real gunshot sounds like in audio from nearly fifty years ago.
Back to my point, when I was researching whether the re-creation video was fake or not, I read all about Christine Chubbuck. Anything that I could find online about her and what she was like. I read interviews with people who knew her. To make my long point short now, Christine Chubbuck was humanized to me through all of that reading, especially after reading the autopsy report and the fine details that I won't mention. It took someone who was tragically so depressed to do something so fatal and final to come out and prove the point I think she was trying to make when she did herself in. The point being is that all the news media industry cares about is how much violence that they can put out there to get ratings, not caring about the viewers as people, just wanting the viewers to watch and give the stations the ratings they were gobbling up. I think that was the lesson that Christine wanted her viewers to understand, it was probably the only thing she still cared about at the end after giving up on herself and her life. I don't know, maybe I'm reading into things that aren't there.
Christine Chubbuck became humanized to me through my personal research as I proved to myself that the re-creation footage was indeed a re-creation to fake out everyone who had been searching for the 'holy grail' footage. There were a few others on YouTube who feel like I do, wanting to see all of the existing footage of Christine Chubbuck in better times just doing her job and being a person, but maybe we're a vocal minority.
I can also somewhat understand what Christine was maybe going through. I've dealt with various levels of depression my entire life and still am. I can back up whole heartedly that dark thoughts indeed do come alongside depression, it's just some of us have stronger will power than others to not act on those dark thoughts. I think Christine was trying to teach a lesson when she gave into her dark thoughts and I think a lot of people missed her point entirely.
Last Edit: Aug 31, 2023 4:18:55 GMT by darkretro1987
I'm of the personal belief that Christine's footage exists elsewhere besides that master tape under lock and key. Maybe I am wrong, but I think either that guy who posted Christine's suicide audio or the "private collector" who provided the audio to him has a copy of the video footage. Only reason this person or people who have this copy of the footage haven't been brave enough to actually release the video somewhere like Archive.Org is probably out of fear of being sued over it. I'm surprised he(or they) weren't sued over leaking the audio.
Related, I found that person's original excuse when releasing the audio of Christine's on air suicide where he didn't want to release her final statement at the end "out of respect" to be total BS. Not only did he release the full audio a few months later but he posted it online on YouTube where he knew he'd garner interest over it in the first place. If he had "respect" for Christine or her family, he never would've posted the audio at all. It was all just an attention grabber, if you ask me, because that person knew fully well he was baiting all of the people out there who regard that Suncoast Digest footage as a holy grail. Him privatizing the videos of the audio a short time later are a lark too because that person knows fully well thousands of people downloaded copies. It's out there now.
There's also been that rumor floating around for many, many years that someone posted Christine's suicide footage in full to some 'faces of death' thing online and people claim to have seen it back then when it was on some website. It's funny, though, that none of them remember what the name of the website was or even a link to it. There were ways to download and save videos even back in the long, long ago of the birth of the internet. If it's true, somebody or somebodies have the video and know they have it. Maybe they don't want to release a copy either out of fear of getting sued or taking away the holy grail factor to the footage.
Personally, I'd want to see the video footage out of morbid curiosity. Even with that said, I do find Christine Chubbuck's entire story very tragic. The woman had her entire life ahead of her and severe depression made her think of and do what she did. I know what depression feels like, lived with it all of my life, so in a way I can see what made her do what she did.
If we aren't allowed to see Christine's footage of that tragic moment, then I totally think that we should be allowed to see the existing footage of what Christine Chubbuck was like alive and well when she was on WXLT long before she made her fateful decision. Her former co-worker sitting on all of that footage I think is more disrespectful than the reasoning he stated when he flatly said he would never release it. It's basically like erasing any trace of Christine from the face of the planet and making everyone focus on that one dreadful moment instead of letting us see who she was in all of those other moments when she was on the air. All he is doing is keeping us from knowing what she was like as a human being and thus leaving her as an object of macabre interest instead.
Home audio recording was common at that time; home video was NOT. I believe the audio originates from the collection of noted radio hobbyist PJ Dyer and, regardless, may have been tape-traded for decades before that point.
There was a lot of weird shit out there in the first few years of the Internet. I personally believe it may have been possible someone may have been confusing a slideshow of images of Chubbuck with seeing the footage, however. Supposedly her brains weren't sprayed behind her like in the common narratives about watching the Internet videos.
If you watch the documentary "Kate Plays Christine" Kate Shell says that she was able to watch old videotapes of Chubbuck while preparing for the role of the character.
To address your second post it's completely possible that the TV station *could* have been recording in black in white on the second camera, but at that time 1 broadcast quality videotape machine would have been horrendously expensive for a TV station, let alone 2. It's also *technically* possible that someone at home may have been recording it; if one wonders why someone would have been taping Suncoast Digest, I've come across home recordings from the 60s of Merv Griffin and local news.
Post by darkretro1987 on Aug 31, 2023 22:11:56 GMT
I'm sure, if PJDyer is still out there, he wouldn't admit to it. I imagine audio of the broadcast would be just as triggering to Christine's remaining family as if the actual video footage got out. I'm also of the personal opinion that eventually the parties that might have copies of the actual video footage will someday crack and post the footage somewhere online. I believe it's only a matter of time until another someone acquires the footage and lacks the fear of getting caught. I think the fear of getting caught is the biggest reason as to why those who do have alternate copies of the footage don't upload it anywhere. Just a personal theory but it makes sound sense to me.
Well, I'm not sure if you've seen it or not, but the video of Budd Dwyer's live TV suicide doesn't have brains sprayed all over the place either. But, the end result is rather messy and takes someone with a strong stomach to watch. I won't describe the material here. I have seen and copied the videos of Dwyer's ending as well as the video of his speech leading up to that moment. That speech video humanizes Dwyer for me. He's sweating bullets the entire speech, which gives insight into what he was thinking of the entire time. The man was probably terrified of going to prison as well as terrified of what he had chosen to do to himself. If he had chosen prison, at least he would've still been alive for the sake of his family, I feel. That would've been better than what he ended up doing. I downloaded both videos due to the fact that I collect rare/lost media from the internet where I can, knowing videos can be deleted in a snap if someone out there deems it inappropriate for the masses.
Okay, I figured as much. I knew Kate, an actress I never knew about prior to seeing her do the part, had seen the footage of that Suncoast Digest that was included in that E channel special but I didn't know that she had seen more than that. I have the 'Kate Plays Christine' film but have only watched a little bit. I found Kate's little rant before doing the suicide scene a little unnecessary. I suppose she was trying to make a statement. I can support her if her statement was conveying that Christine was human just like the rest of us, but she could've done it in a different way. I need to watch the full film eventually to see that scene again, I may have it out of context. I watched it quite a long time ago.
If Kate saw the footage of Christine doing news reports, I wonder if the former anchor who has the footage did the smart thing and digitized the footage or made DVDs. His video tapes must be rather old if he was working at the station at the same time Christine had been there. Video tape degrades over time. There are special circumstances where the degradation can be slowed like if the tape has only been played a small handful of times or not played ever or stored in a decent environment. I have experience with that, transferring VHS tapes from the mid to late 80's. Some are warbly and wrinkly in video and audio while others that were maybe watched once and stored in a decent place where the video and audio are nearly pristine as if the footage were recorded yesterday. I've never worked with video tape from the 1970's before, I really would love to but never have gotten the chance to yet.
To address your last paragraph: Yup, I've believed the possibility that some home viewers somewhere were recording Suncoast Digest that fateful morning. Maybe it was someone or someones who recorded the show on a daily basis to get the current events information from it. I was a novice to video tape history before, only knowing about VHS and Beta since that is what I've been around since childhood. Bennyboy over on the Oddity Archive gave me a good history lesson about the predecessors to VHS and Beta where I learned there was that really affordable(maybe to some at the time) reel to reel method of video recording that you mentioned where someone could record about an hour of media to it.
I don't know everything about VHS history so I'm not sure if actual VHS cassettes as we know them today existed in 1974 yet. I think the Umatic recorder and cassette may have existed back then, I'm not sure.
Pat Dyer died a few years ago. I also try to avoid gore footage in general; I only listened to the Chubbuck audio out of morbid curiosity - when I realized "shit, this is real" it gave me nightmares for a while.
I know definitely there were open reel tape recorders available at the time and they were like $1000 in 1972 money - more if you wanted colour. VHS was not on the market until about 1976. Umastic not until 1971. It is *technically* possible that someone recorded Suncoast Digest on a VTR but don't count on any of the videos showing up. Here's some footage about Christine that was professionally recorded:
Post by darkretro1987 on Sept 2, 2023 18:40:18 GMT
I totally understand, everyone has their levels of tolerance. I can see disturbing material only to a certain extent myself before it’s too much. I wouldn’t want to see any of it all of the time. I have a side interest in true crime related media and stories so I have developed somewhat a tolerance for those sorts of details, but only so much.
Those news casts I was waiting a long time to see after I saw brief clips in one of the documentary videos I saw about Christine.
I think that weather man with his archives and WXLT will intentionally sit on the footage of anything to do with her forever. It will take all people associated with Christine from that time period to die off before someone objective gets in charge of those archives. For all we know the former weather man will make sure to destroy his copies before he dies, essentially erasing Christine Chubbuck from memory as a person and only associate her as some news woman who unalived herself. Very backwards thinking with their actions in my opinion.
I'm of the personal belief that Christine's footage exists elsewhere besides that master tape under lock and key. Maybe I am wrong, but I think either that guy who posted Christine's suicide audio or the "private collector" who provided the audio to him has a copy of the video footage. Only reason this person or people who have this copy of the footage haven't been brave enough to actually release the video somewhere like Archive.Org is probably out of fear of being sued over it. I'm surprised he(or they) weren't sued over leaking the audio.
Related, I found that person's original excuse when releasing the audio of Christine's on air suicide where he didn't want to release her final statement at the end "out of respect" to be total BS. Not only did he release the full audio a few months later but he posted it online on YouTube where he knew he'd garner interest over it in the first place. If he had "respect" for Christine or her family, he never would've posted the audio at all. It was all just an attention grabber, if you ask me, because that person knew fully well he was baiting all of the people out there who regard that Suncoast Digest footage as a holy grail. Him privatizing the videos of the audio a short time later are a lark too because that person knows fully well thousands of people downloaded copies. It's out there now.
There's also been that rumor floating around for many, many years that someone posted Christine's suicide footage in full to some 'faces of death' thing online and people claim to have seen it back then when it was on some website. It's funny, though, that none of them remember what the name of the website was or even a link to it. There were ways to download and save videos even back in the long, long ago of the birth of the internet. If it's true, somebody or somebodies have the video and know they have it. Maybe they don't want to release a copy either out of fear of getting sued or taking away the holy grail factor to the footage.
Personally, I'd want to see the video footage out of morbid curiosity. Even with that said, I do find Christine Chubbuck's entire story very tragic. The woman had her entire life ahead of her and severe depression made her think of and do what she did. I know what depression feels like, lived with it all of my life, so in a way I can see what made her do what she did.
If we aren't allowed to see Christine's footage of that tragic moment, then I totally think that we should be allowed to see the existing footage of what Christine Chubbuck was like alive and well when she was on WXLT long before she made her fateful decision. Her former co-worker sitting on all of that footage I think is more disrespectful than the reasoning he stated when he flatly said he would never release it. It's basically like erasing any trace of Christine from the face of the planet and making everyone focus on that one dreadful moment instead of letting us see who she was in all of those other moments when she was on the air. All he is doing is keeping us from knowing what she was like as a human being and thus leaving her as an object of macabre interest instead.
—I’m back to address the rest of your post. As far as I know, the footage does exist, but it’s (according to the wife of the former station owner) under lock and key with attorneys of their family. She claims that her husband made her promise him not to get rid of it, otherwise, she says, she would have. If you want the article with this information, I can try and find it and link it here (no NSFL media included) or I can just message it to you so as to avoid possibly breaking forum rules.
One person suggested that the currently available audio is maybe a recording from the attorneys office maybe, or a recording of what the police have or once had for their reports (you can tell it’s a recording of the footage in my opinion as at least twice you can hear people in the background talking during said audio). Someone else also mentioned this Pat Dyer, but as far as I know it was either debunked or at the very least this Dyer person may have denied it (I’m not 100% sure on this but I believe it’s talked about somewhere within this thread)
On other Christine footage: the Newman guy has definitely confirmed he has some. How much, I’m not sure, but as stated, he doesn’t want to release it because he doesn’t believe anyone asking for its intentions don’t have to do with her death. It’s very sad, because most people who have heard of her will only be because of her end. She was on a very local news show, not a national one so, especially now, who didn’t hear about her first because of her death? Idk, I could go on for a while about that, unfortunately it won’t change his stance and per the rules of this board no one here should be contacting him asking for it anyway, so unless maybe a legit journalist contacts him, I have little to no hope it will ever be released.—
Apparently my quoting of your post did t work right and it looks like my post was part of what I quoted from yours.mine starts at the dashes I added to differentiate our posts. I’m not good at using this board apparently 🤦🏻♂️
I totally understand, everyone has their levels of tolerance. I can see disturbing material only to a certain extent myself before it’s too much. I wouldn’t want to see any of it all of the time. I have a side interest in true crime related media and stories so I have developed somewhat a tolerance for those sorts of details, but only so much.
Those news casts I was waiting a long time to see after I saw brief clips in one of the documentary videos I saw about Christine.
I think that weather man with his archives and WXLT will intentionally sit on the footage of anything to do with her forever. It will take all people associated with Christine from that time period to die off before someone objective gets in charge of those archives. For all we know the former weather man will make sure to destroy his copies before he dies, essentially erasing Christine Chubbuck from memory as a person and only associate her as some news woman who unalived herself. Very backwards thinking with their actions in my opinion.
I also agree that it's backwards for Steve Newman to sit on his copies. I know he's explained his reasoning, but I respectfully disagree with it, as I've stated earlier.
I was surprised to log in and see all these new posts! I've been meaning to update everyone for a while but I've been busy with work. I hope you've all been well. Here's what's been going on so far:
I emailed John Griffin, the segment producer of the E! Network documentary back in March. That's the documentary which included the SFW Suncoast Digest footage. He said he'd be happy to share any info he has and that he'd email me back when he has time. After another email a couple weeks later telling me he'd get back to me asap, I didn't hear from him anymore. I sent a follow-up email in May and haven't heard anything, so he may unfortunately be going through some life events or something. If he ever gets back to me with information that I'm allowed to share, I will post on my blog and let you all know.
Secondly, I had emailed the Sarasota Herald-Tribune multiple times around April or so, requesting any info they had on photos of Chris. All of my emails were ignored and strangely enough, I noticed that the Associated Press took all their editorial photos related to Chris down around that time. I have no idea if those two events are related, but it seemed strange to me. My current view is that no one has any photos, because all the newspapers can keep are microflim scans of their previous issues. This is to save space, and I heard this directly from a Herald-Tribune employee that I'd called in the fall of 2022. Any photo negatives would then presumably be with the original photographers if they'd decided to keep them. I was also in correspondence with John Cloud, who took the scene photos on the day Chris died. He sent me the only scans he had (also on my blog) and told me he'd reach out if he found anything else. He said he was not the person who originally took those portrait photos of Chris, even though the AP had credited him as being the photographer. He said he just somehow ended up with a copy on the day he was at WXLT.
For now this is just a waiting game in regards to footage, at least on my end. For clarification, Mr. Griffin never specifically claimed to be in possession of the SFW footage in his email. He just said he could tell me about his research but wasn't specific. I have very little faith in finding any more photos of Chris, unless Mr. Cloud finds negatives or a print of those portrait photos.
Last Edit: Sept 2, 2023 20:26:24 GMT by tapesignal: clarification, details
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Post by darkretro1987 on Sept 2, 2023 20:49:51 GMT
I personally would never use time trying to get footage out of someone like Newman. He’s got his reasoning, I just think it’s a waste him not using his footage of her as a means of shutting down the impression that Christine was just a crazy person who shot herself, which she wasn’t. I don’t know, barking up the wrong tree with him. I don’t think he’d ever budge.
Really sounds sketchy how everyone who is anyone involved with the event are trying to erase all of their traces of Christine. Almost like they actually want her to be forgotten and they don’t have to deal with the subject anymore. I wouldn’t want to suspect a cover-up, like I do with the infamous on its own law enforcement handling of the Jodi Husentruit case. I am thinking here the people related around Christine’s whole event just want to distance from it and move on with their lives.
I would be curious to hear what that researcher has to say about what he knows or may have.
I don't know how far back you've read on this thread, but I stated a while back that I don't have any intention of contacting Mr. Newman. Additionally, I think it would be a) pointless, since if he wanted it out there he'd just release it on his youtube channel, and b) rude, or probably perceived as rude by him, since he's already strongly stated his position in Kate Plays Christine. I agree with you that him keeping the footage is doing exactly the opposite of what he intended. Chris' story is already out there so why not humanize her? But his view is that anything mentioning Chris is by default a glorification of suicide, because that's how she became famous in the first place. I understand his opinion but I disagree with it. I feel that Chris' story is a cautionary tale about the importance of mental health. It's also a reminder to always be kind to others because we never know what someone is going through or what's going on in their mind. A person may come off as irrational or dramatic to us, but deep down they may be dealing with a chemical imbalance or a traumatic past.
I don't think there's a cover-up per se. At least that's my opinion. I'd say people are afraid that, by even talking about it, they are helping glorify suicide. I think they also don't want to disrespect or possibly get sued by Greg Chubbuck. I have no idea how litigious he is, but I do know that he didn't want the films to be made and tried to stop it for a long time. I read that in one of the many articles where he was interviewed in 2016.
Last Edit: Sept 2, 2023 21:04:10 GMT by tapesignal: additional comments
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