Yeah. Inside out just seemed like a better idea overall.
By the way, on an unrelated note, on the lost media wiki page for Me and My Shadow, apparently the user by the name of YoshiKiller claimed a workprint of the film was in circulation. I’ll go take a picture of it and post it here. I’m not sure if that’s true or not though, and if it is, I wonder if it’s the most complete version that exists.
(Edit: The image is below. Click on it to see it in better quality)
I generally take comments with a grain of salt, but it could still be possible. I assume that the workprint is probably far enough to have all the story-beats and whatever animation was completed, or else it wouldn't be so highly circulated (presuming its real).
Yeah. We should probably reach out to Yoshi Killer to see if he has any proof of this.
Also, I think I just realized something. Most of the clips we have appear to be from the first two acts, with almost none from the third and final act of the film. This might be a hunch, but I think that most of the animation work was done on the first two acts, and the third one is pretty much in animatic form.
That’s at least how I imagine the most finalized version that exists to be like.
I generally take comments with a grain of salt, but it could still be possible. I assume that the workprint is probably far enough to have all the story-beats and whatever animation was completed, or else it wouldn't be so highly circulated (presuming its real).
Yeah. We should probably reach out to Yoshi Killer to see if he has any proof of this.
Also, I think I just realized something. Most of the clips we have appear to be from the first two acts, with almost none from the third and final act of the film. This might be a hunch, but I think that most of the animation work was done on the first two acts, and the third one is pretty much in animatic form.
That’s at least how I imagine the most finalized version that exists to be like.
When Yoshi first made that claim I actually spoke with him directly about it in a voice call with a friend who's a huge MaMS fan. Yoshi's story is basically that he had a friend who was deep in the trading community and had access to a ton of industry materials (workprints of B.O.O., Me and My Shadow, Puss in Boots: 9 Lives) however there were holes in the story, and the friend had kind of disappeared (and also isn't a very good person). According to a crew member from MaMS, a workprint was never made, it didn't get that far. Me and a few others think that while Yoshi was telling the truth, his friend likely wasn't. The only "proof" we have is a screenshot of a thumbnail to the B.O.O. workprint (which is mislabeled, suspicious) and some screenshots of 9 Lives, which we haven't been able to confirm are legitimate or just good fakes. The entire thing just felt suspicious and we've decided that it was likely a hoax. Yoshi's a good guy and he has some actual material (mainly scripts) that he's loaned to me for research, however this old acquaintance seems to be a bad apple.
Regardless, even if Yoshi's friend was telling the truth, we have no way to get in touch with him and I personally don't want anything to do with him due to some things he's done in the past involving harassment. It's a mess. Even if he was telling the truth and we did get in touch with him, these trading circles are usually extremely private and work on a trust basis. There's no way someone could get in there and get all of this material just to share it all online. It would be catastrophic.
Also, Springy, where is your pfp from? It reminds me of American Dog for some reason.
Last Edit: Dec 17, 2023 2:39:23 GMT by ziggycashmere
Yeah. We should probably reach out to Yoshi Killer to see if he has any proof of this.
Also, I think I just realized something. Most of the clips we have appear to be from the first two acts, with almost none from the third and final act of the film. This might be a hunch, but I think that most of the animation work was done on the first two acts, and the third one is pretty much in animatic form.
That’s at least how I imagine the most finalized version that exists to be like.
When Yoshi first made that claim I actually spoke with him directly about it in a voice call with a friend who's a huge MaMS fan. Yoshi's story is basically that he had a friend who was deep in the trading community and had access to a ton of industry materials (workprints of B.O.O., Me and My Shadow, Puss in Boots: 9 Lives) however there were holes in the story, and the friend had kind of disappeared (and also isn't a very good person). According to a crew member from MaMS, a workprint was never made, it didn't get that far. Me and a few others think that while Yoshi was telling the truth, his friend likely wasn't. The only "proof" we have is a screenshot of a thumbnail to the B.O.O. workprint (which is mislabeled, suspicious) and some screenshots of 9 Lives, which we haven't been able to confirm are legitimate or just good fakes. The entire thing just felt suspicious and we've decided that it was likely a hoax. Yoshi's a good guy and he has some actual material (mainly scripts) that he's loaned to me for research, however this old acquaintance seems to be a bad apple.
Regardless, even if Yoshi's friend was telling the truth, we have no way to get in touch with him and I personally don't want anything to do with him due to some things he's done in the past involving harassment. It's a mess. Even if he was telling the truth and we did get in touch with him, these trading circles are usually extremely private and work on a trust basis. There's no way someone could get in there and get all of this material just to share it all online. It would be catastrophic.
Also, Springy, where is your pfp from? It reminds me of American Dog for some reason.
Damn. That’s a shame.
Although, I could have sworn I saw an animator of Me and My Shadow mention that the film was halfway through animation before being cancelled. I’m sure at least an animatic exists.
Aside from that, If you claim to believe Yoshi was telling the truth of his friend having access to those materials and workprints, then why didn’t you believe that the friend actually had them? This part kinda confused me.
Also, if you have it, could I see this so-called B.O.O workprint screenshot?
Last Edit: Dec 17, 2023 3:06:27 GMT by lostmedia1975
Yeah. We should probably reach out to Yoshi Killer to see if he has any proof of this.
Also, I think I just realized something. Most of the clips we have appear to be from the first two acts, with almost none from the third and final act of the film. This might be a hunch, but I think that most of the animation work was done on the first two acts, and the third one is pretty much in animatic form.
That’s at least how I imagine the most finalized version that exists to be like.
Also, Springy, where is your pfp from? It reminds me of American Dog for some reason.
I think this might be the greatest piece of evidence that at least some models were fully rendered. Which makes me wonder even greater how much was done before the plug was pulled.
EDIT If you want more, I've been compiling concept art for months on the main page.
I think this might be the greatest piece of evidence that at least some models were fully rendered. Which makes me wonder even greater how much was done before the plug was pulled.
EDIT If you want more, I've been compiling concept art for months on the main page.
Sweet!! Cool to see I got it right, haha. If you have a Discord feel free to send me a request at ziggycashmere, I'd love to talk more about American Dog, I'll be working on a chapter on it in my book after the current installment is finished and it's definitely something I'm wanting to learn more about.
When Yoshi first made that claim I actually spoke with him directly about it in a voice call with a friend who's a huge MaMS fan. Yoshi's story is basically that he had a friend who was deep in the trading community and had access to a ton of industry materials (workprints of B.O.O., Me and My Shadow, Puss in Boots: 9 Lives) however there were holes in the story, and the friend had kind of disappeared (and also isn't a very good person). According to a crew member from MaMS, a workprint was never made, it didn't get that far. Me and a few others think that while Yoshi was telling the truth, his friend likely wasn't. The only "proof" we have is a screenshot of a thumbnail to the B.O.O. workprint (which is mislabeled, suspicious) and some screenshots of 9 Lives, which we haven't been able to confirm are legitimate or just good fakes. The entire thing just felt suspicious and we've decided that it was likely a hoax. Yoshi's a good guy and he has some actual material (mainly scripts) that he's loaned to me for research, however this old acquaintance seems to be a bad apple.
Regardless, even if Yoshi's friend was telling the truth, we have no way to get in touch with him and I personally don't want anything to do with him due to some things he's done in the past involving harassment. It's a mess. Even if he was telling the truth and we did get in touch with him, these trading circles are usually extremely private and work on a trust basis. There's no way someone could get in there and get all of this material just to share it all online. It would be catastrophic.
Also, Springy, where is your pfp from? It reminds me of American Dog for some reason.
Damn. That’s a shame.
Although, I could have sworn I saw an animator of Me and My Shadow mention that the film was halfway through animation before being cancelled. I’m sure at least an animatic exists.
Aside from that, If you claim to believe Yoshi was telling the truth of his friend having access to those materials and workprints, then why didn’t you believe that the friend actually had them? This part kinda confused me.
Also, if you have it, could I see this so-called B.O.O workprint screenshot?
I just talked to Yoshi again and he filled me in a bit more. It's... confusing, lol. The person he knew might have been telling the truth, there's a lot of evidence, but there's also a lot of things pointing the opposite direction. I'm still not entirely convinced, but there are some things that seem too good to be faked. It's a long story, I might be working with him to write a full dissertation on it all just for reference later.
Although, I could have sworn I saw an animator of Me and My Shadow mention that the film was halfway through animation before being cancelled. I’m sure at least an animatic exists.
Aside from that, If you claim to believe Yoshi was telling the truth of his friend having access to those materials and workprints, then why didn’t you believe that the friend actually had them? This part kinda confused me.
Also, if you have it, could I see this so-called B.O.O workprint screenshot?
I just talked to Yoshi again and he filled me in a bit more. It's... confusing, lol. The person he knew might have been telling the truth, there's a lot of evidence, but there's also a lot of things pointing the opposite direction. I'm still not entirely convinced, but there are some things that seem too good to be faked. It's a long story, I might be working with him to write a full dissertation on it all just for reference later.
Here's that screenshot, as you requested.
I’d love to see that.
As for the screenshot, it’s definitely fake. That’s not even the correct title (If that were the title, wouldn’t the title be L.O.G: Legion of Ghosts instead?) and besides, the so-called “workprint” is dated December 17, 2015. This movie was cancelled in January that same year, so no development work would have been done on it by December.
If it were real, it probably would have been dated like, January 8, 2015 or something (that’s not even the exact date the film was cancelled as far as I’m aware, it’s just a random guess.)
But yes, as you said, it’s most definitely fake.
By chance, could you share some more evidence as well?
Also, I know this is a dumb question, but how do workprint trading circles work? Like, are those usually done online on piracy websites, or in person at flea markets or something? Do they receive a physical or digital copy?
(Edit: I just realized this, but L.O.G.: Legion of Ghosts sounds like a B.O.O knockoff in an alternate universe where the latter actually did come out. I can see asylum studios or something making L.O.G.)
Last Edit: Dec 17, 2023 13:41:32 GMT by lostmedia1975
I just talked to Yoshi again and he filled me in a bit more. It's... confusing, lol. The person he knew might have been telling the truth, there's a lot of evidence, but there's also a lot of things pointing the opposite direction. I'm still not entirely convinced, but there are some things that seem too good to be faked. It's a long story, I might be working with him to write a full dissertation on it all just for reference later.
Here's that screenshot, as you requested.
I’d love to see that.
As for the screenshot, it’s definitely fake. That’s not even the correct title (If that were the title, wouldn’t the title be L.O.G: Legion of Ghosts instead?) and besides, the so-called “workprint” is dated December 17, 2015. This movie was cancelled in January that same year, so no development work would have been done on it by December.
If it were real, it probably would have been dated like, January 8, 2015 or something (that’s not even the exact date the film was cancelled as far as I’m aware, it’s just a random guess.)
But yes, as you said, it’s most definitely fake.
By chance, could you share some more evidence as well?
Also, I know this is a dumb question, but how do workprint trading circles work? Like, are those usually done online on piracy websites, or in person at flea markets or something? Do they receive a physical or digital copy?
(Edit: I just realized this, but L.O.G.: Legion of Ghosts sounds like a B.O.O knockoff in an alternate universe where the latter actually did come out. I can see asylum studios or something making L.O.G.)
In all fairness, I thought it over and the Legion of Ghosts thing could just be a subtitle for B.O.O., because B.O.O. - Bureau of Otherworldly Operations, may have been redundant and may have sounded boring to the casual viewer. Also, there are rumors that crew worked on the film even after it was canceled just because they wanted to, as well as the fact that the date could just be when the file was pulled, not compiled.
I haven't asked if I can share the rest, I'm sure I can but I think I'll just wait until we write the dissertation and we'll include what we can there.
As for workprint trading circles, they've been around since (I think) the 80s. Insiders would copy a tape and share copies with traders and bootleggers, physical tapes, then that graduated to DVDs. There's a bootleg of Jumanji dubbed in Russian that uses a workprint that I've actually seen, it's weird. Anyway, the way they work now, I believe, is that there are multiple different circles, the way you get in is trading. Traders will give you a list of the workprints that they have, you give them a list of yours, and if you have mutual interests you trade. You don't get a workprint usually unless you give them one. It's all on a trust basis. Workprints have made their way into the public though, and when that happens they become worthless in the circle and can no longer be traded for something that isn't easily available. Workprints for Beetlejuice, Treasure Planet, and Aladdin for example are currently accessible without having to trade with collectors.
As for the screenshot, it’s definitely fake. That’s not even the correct title (If that were the title, wouldn’t the title be L.O.G: Legion of Ghosts instead?) and besides, the so-called “workprint” is dated December 17, 2015. This movie was cancelled in January that same year, so no development work would have been done on it by December.
If it were real, it probably would have been dated like, January 8, 2015 or something (that’s not even the exact date the film was cancelled as far as I’m aware, it’s just a random guess.)
But yes, as you said, it’s most definitely fake.
By chance, could you share some more evidence as well?
Also, I know this is a dumb question, but how do workprint trading circles work? Like, are those usually done online on piracy websites, or in person at flea markets or something? Do they receive a physical or digital copy?
(Edit: I just realized this, but L.O.G.: Legion of Ghosts sounds like a B.O.O knockoff in an alternate universe where the latter actually did come out. I can see asylum studios or something making L.O.G.)
In all fairness, I thought it over and the Legion of Ghosts thing could just be a subtitle for B.O.O., because B.O.O. - Bureau of Otherworldly Operations, may have been redundant and may have sounded boring to the casual viewer. Also, there are rumors that crew worked on the film even after it was canceled just because they wanted to, as well as the fact that the date could just be when the file was pulled, not compiled.
I haven't asked if I can share the rest, I'm sure I can but I think I'll just wait until we write the dissertation and we'll include what we can there.
As for workprint trading circles, they've been around since (I think) the 80s. Insiders would copy a tape and share copies with traders and bootleggers, physical tapes, then that graduated to DVDs. There's a bootleg of Jumanji dubbed in Russian that uses a workprint that I've actually seen, it's weird. Anyway, the way they work now, I believe, is that there are multiple different circles, the way you get in is trading. Traders will give you a list of the workprints that they have, you give them a list of yours, and if you have mutual interests you trade. You don't get a workprint usually unless you give them one. It's all on a trust basis. Workprints have made their way into the public though, and when that happens they become worthless in the circle and can no longer be traded for something that isn't easily available. Workprints for Beetlejuice, Treasure Planet, and Aladdin for example are currently accessible without having to trade with collectors.
A subtitle? Do you mean they considered changing the title, or did you mean it would’ve been a title to be used in other countries?
I’m not sure about the rumor of the crew continuing to work on the film, since over half of the footage that’s been made available is heavily unfinished. I’d imagine they would’ve shown off a more complete version of they had it (mind you, I don’t know shit about animation and Demo Reels, that’s why I was surprised to learn they don’t even usually keep copies of the film they worked on, just the bird they animated).
But aside from that, if the rumor is true, and this is in fact a real workprint, this is probably an incomplete version of the film. I’m guessing dreamworks would not have the more complete cuts of the film, since those would be made by the crew after its cancellation.
I know I already asked springy this question, but since they never decided on an ending, would that mean that most (if not all) copies of the film just end abruptly?
I think this might be the greatest piece of evidence that at least some models were fully rendered. Which makes me wonder even greater how much was done before the plug was pulled.
EDIT If you want more, I've been compiling concept art for months on the main page.
Nice.
Also, I know this is unrelated, but I found something interesting regarding B.O.O. Ziggy cashmere already knows about it, but I might as well share this with the rest of the thread.
As mentioned by lovely fellow Lost Media forum member Michael in another thread, the alternate version of The Golden Compass which is believed to be at least 30 minutes longer and have a different ending. I also suspect that this other version likely had more overt anti-religious messaging, which I read (in a 2007 newspaper article) had to be "very toned down" to appeal to the more religious American family movie market.
Skipping the philosophical conversion... so the Golden Compass... what do people want to know? I wrote an article for Film Stories magazine (issue 25 - I don't post the article as it's an independent one-man magazine that gives lot of writers their first chance at being published) explaining how I know what I know. Also I'm the guy who put the reconstructed ending up on YouTube.
Alternate cuts, this is hard to pin down. Officially there's no finished alternative cut, there's earlier cuts that follow closer the plot of the book... then there's Chris Weitz's directors cut.
The director's cut was a proof of concept that Chris put together himself - it is extremely rough. It uses footage from the dailies dvds, mixed with an oscar screener. There's text over the screen at points, including a placeholder shot to suggest a scene that doesn't exist. Length-wise, minus any form of credits it comes in at 2 hours and 7 mins.
I will stress though that length is not an indication of how much would change on a theoretical alternative cut of The Golden Compass. The studio dug deep into the edit and made changes throughout and expect nearly every scene to be touched in someway. Obviously there is the religions cuts, the Magestrium's signs were modified in post, and when talking about the authority, Nicole Kidman's line about 'they disobeyed the authority', was re-dubbed and she actually was supposed to say 'she disobeyed the authority'. But looking beyond that there is a completely different take on the story... subplots were removed, scenes cut, moments reordered, actors replaced, music changed, buildings redesigned and then large chunks of additional footage added against the director's intent.
Looking at the introduction, the film originally had a cat travelling from our world's Oxford over to Lyra's. The cat would then sneak into Jordan College and try and pounce on Lyra and Pan as they make their way to the retiring room. An early version of this scene was played at Cannes festival for the 30 minute preview. Chris wasn't 100% happy with the beginning of this scene.
With James Bond getting big and the studio taking over control of the film, the studio came in and filmed a new version. At night a cat from our world escaped through into Lyra's world, but instead of coming across Lyra (at least first!) the cat came across Lord Asriel as he tries to "break in" to Jordan College. The magestrium guards are trying to stop his heretical talk about alternate worlds. We see Lord Asriel dive across the Oxford roof tops - we oddly see the beginning and.end of this scene in the final film "are we going to see the Child?" / "Lord Asriel, the master will be happy to see you!". This action scene felt very out of place and considering the film backed away from the multiverse elements it became extra and even the studio agreed they'd gone to far so it was cut.
The final result was the mishmash of clips and an info dump.
Even the lost ending went through the studio meddling and if somehow a copy of the full ending made its way out there it wouldn't reflect the version the director originally filmed. The studio at first decided that Lyra was too sad and a bad place to leave the film, so they tried making her happier, they also tried cutting Nicole Kidman from the ending to streamline it. The version that had the VFX worked upon (I've never been 100% able to confirm how far with the VFX they got, it was close, but I don't think all shots reached final) took the version with Lyra being more determined and not as sad.
I struggle watching the theatrical version now as once you see how much things have been mangled in the studio's desperate attempt to please everyone it's hard to un-see, the fact it's not even a complete story doesn't help either.
As mentioned by lovely fellow Lost Media forum member Michael in another thread, the alternate version of The Golden Compass which is believed to be at least 30 minutes longer and have a different ending. I also suspect that this other version likely had more overt anti-religious messaging, which I read (in a 2007 newspaper article) had to be "very toned down" to appeal to the more religious American family movie market.
Skipping the philosophical conversion... so the Golden Compass... what do people want to know? I wrote an article for Film Stories magazine (issue 25 - I don't post the article as it's an independent one-man magazine that gives lot of writers their first chance at being published) explaining how I know what I know. Also I'm the guy who put the reconstructed ending up on YouTube.
Alternate cuts, this is hard to pin down. Officially there's no finished alternative cut, there's earlier cuts that follow closer the plot of the book... then there's Chris Weitz's directors cut.
The director's cut was a proof of concept that Chris put together himself - it is extremely rough. It uses footage from the dailies dvds, mixed with an oscar screener. There's text over the screen at points, including a placeholder shot to suggest a scene that doesn't exist. Length-wise, minus any form of credits it comes in at 2 hours and 7 mins.
I will stress though that length is not an indication of how much would change on a theoretical alternative cut of The Golden Compass. The studio dug deep into the edit and made changes throughout and expect nearly every scene to be touched in someway. Obviously there is the religions cuts, the Magestrium's signs were modified in post, and when talking about the authority, Nicole Kidman's line about 'they disobeyed the authority', was re-dubbed and she actually was supposed to say 'she disobeyed the authority'. But looking beyond that there is a completely different take on the story... subplots were removed, scenes cut, moments reordered, actors replaced, music changed, buildings redesigned and then large chunks of additional footage added against the director's intent.
Looking at the introduction, the film originally had a cat travelling from our world's Oxford over to Lyra's. The cat would then sneak into Jordan College and try and pounce on Lyra and Pan as they make their way to the retiring room. An early version of this scene was played at Cannes festival for the 30 minute preview. Chris wasn't 100% happy with the beginning of this scene.
With James Bond getting big and the studio taking over control of the film, the studio came in and filmed a new version. At night a cat from our world escaped through into Lyra's world, but instead of coming across Lyra (at least first!) the cat came across Lord Asriel as he tries to "break in" to Jordan College. The magestrium guards are trying to stop his heretical talk about alternate worlds. We see Lord Asriel dive across the Oxford roof tops - we oddly see the beginning and.end of this scene in the final film "are we going to see the Child?" / "Lord Asriel, the master will be happy to see you!". This action scene felt very out of place and considering the film backed away from the multiverse elements it became extra and even the studio agreed they'd gone to far so it was cut.
The final result was the mishmash of clips and an info dump.
Even the lost ending went through the studio meddling and if somehow a copy of the full ending made its way out there it wouldn't reflect the version the director originally filmed. The studio at first decided that Lyra was too sad and a bad place to leave the film, so they tried making her happier, they also tried cutting Nicole Kidman from the ending to streamline it. The version that had the VFX worked upon (I've never been 100% able to confirm how far with the VFX they got, it was close, but I don't think all shots reached final) took the version with Lyra being more determined and not as sad.
I struggle watching the theatrical version now as once you see how much things have been mangled in the studio's desperate attempt to please everyone it's hard to un-see, the fact it's not even a complete story doesn't help either.
Anyway - any questions?
Jeez, they fucked this movie into oblivion and then some. And I thought Suicide Squad had it rough…
As mentioned by lovely fellow Lost Media forum member Michael in another thread, the alternate version of The Golden Compass which is believed to be at least 30 minutes longer and have a different ending. I also suspect that this other version likely had more overt anti-religious messaging, which I read (in a 2007 newspaper article) had to be "very toned down" to appeal to the more religious American family movie market.
Skipping the philosophical conversion... so the Golden Compass... what do people want to know? I wrote an article for Film Stories magazine (issue 25 - I don't post the article as it's an independent one-man magazine that gives lot of writers their first chance at being published) explaining how I know what I know. Also I'm the guy who put the reconstructed ending up on YouTube.
Alternate cuts, this is hard to pin down. Officially there's no finished alternative cut, there's earlier cuts that follow closer the plot of the book... then there's Chris Weitz's directors cut.
The director's cut was a proof of concept that Chris put together himself - it is extremely rough. It uses footage from the dailies dvds, mixed with an oscar screener. There's text over the screen at points, including a placeholder shot to suggest a scene that doesn't exist. Length-wise, minus any form of credits it comes in at 2 hours and 7 mins.
I will stress though that length is not an indication of how much would change on a theoretical alternative cut of The Golden Compass. The studio dug deep into the edit and made changes throughout and expect nearly every scene to be touched in someway. Obviously there is the religions cuts, the Magestrium's signs were modified in post, and when talking about the authority, Nicole Kidman's line about 'they disobeyed the authority', was re-dubbed and she actually was supposed to say 'she disobeyed the authority'. But looking beyond that there is a completely different take on the story... subplots were removed, scenes cut, moments reordered, actors replaced, music changed, buildings redesigned and then large chunks of additional footage added against the director's intent.
Looking at the introduction, the film originally had a cat travelling from our world's Oxford over to Lyra's. The cat would then sneak into Jordan College and try and pounce on Lyra and Pan as they make their way to the retiring room. An early version of this scene was played at Cannes festival for the 30 minute preview. Chris wasn't 100% happy with the beginning of this scene.
With James Bond getting big and the studio taking over control of the film, the studio came in and filmed a new version. At night a cat from our world escaped through into Lyra's world, but instead of coming across Lyra (at least first!) the cat came across Lord Asriel as he tries to "break in" to Jordan College. The magestrium guards are trying to stop his heretical talk about alternate worlds. We see Lord Asriel dive across the Oxford roof tops - we oddly see the beginning and.end of this scene in the final film "are we going to see the Child?" / "Lord Asriel, the master will be happy to see you!". This action scene felt very out of place and considering the film backed away from the multiverse elements it became extra and even the studio agreed they'd gone to far so it was cut.
The final result was the mishmash of clips and an info dump.
Even the lost ending went through the studio meddling and if somehow a copy of the full ending made its way out there it wouldn't reflect the version the director originally filmed. The studio at first decided that Lyra was too sad and a bad place to leave the film, so they tried making her happier, they also tried cutting Nicole Kidman from the ending to streamline it. The version that had the VFX worked upon (I've never been 100% able to confirm how far with the VFX they got, it was close, but I don't think all shots reached final) took the version with Lyra being more determined and not as sad.
I struggle watching the theatrical version now as once you see how much things have been mangled in the studio's desperate attempt to please everyone it's hard to un-see, the fact it's not even a complete story doesn't help either.
Anyway - any questions?
Thank you so much for your in-depth insight. It does seem that book-to-movie adaptations would to go through a lot of changes/rewrites/reshoots, even by Hollywood movie production standards. Like every scene being altered in some way in the case of the Golden Compass, and major strife between the director and studio (makes me wonder if that's why the film, despite some strong elements, feels so damn milquetoast) It makes sense that beyond the religious aspect, there would be a lot of questions as to adapt the uniqueness of the book onto the screen, even like the Daemons themselves, how they should be portrayed? As you go into detail about the whole "cat" thing Again, I've discussed this before, but you can really tell that New Line was REALLY trying for their own "Harry Potter" by creating something that appealed to as many people as possible. Of course, Chronicles of Narnia and Series of Unfortunate Events had a go at it too, that was just the times-every studio was digging up what books they could to make Harry Potter box office magic, and that sadly meant a number of creative and unique book adaptations had to be "smoothed over" to make them appealing to wider family audiences.
I also find it interesting that even if we DID get that "full alternate ending," it still wouldn't be what the original director wanted.
In terms of the book ending, it has been a hot minute since I read the books, but I do recall TGC ending being cautiously optimistic, or at least that's how I interpreted it when I read the series as a younger lass. Like, sure Lyra is ultimately alone, she's already gone through a lot of trauma and no one (bar Pan) is there to help her...BUT she uses that as her opportunity to find her own answers and be independent/strong. So there's an element of hope to it as well. I STILL remember the last memorable line about her "walking into the sky."
