VOCALOID Lost Songs

hillibillibob
New Member

Vocal Synth Lost Media

Posts: 5

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 13, 2022 20:22:55 GMT Kamui, serpentnight, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by hillibillibob on May 13, 2022 20:22:55 GMT

Hey! So over my time in the Vocal Synth community I've gathered a small handful of songs that are technically lost now and I'm not quite sure what to do with them. If they were well known songs I'm sure someone would have reprinted them by now, but the problem is that the songs I have are by small producers that just chose to delete their work one day. And like on one hand I want to respect that decision to delete their work. On the other hand I'm sure at least one other person out there misses some of the songs I have

This is like the whole reason I joined the lost media forums in the first place, for advice on what to do with these songs.

Here's a list of the ones I know I have right now:

スカビオサ (Scabiosa) Feat. KAITO by Lutie [ this is my favorite of the bunch, I desperately miss it being on the internet ]
GODLIKE Feat. Luka by Expus
転校生 Feat. Rana by ムラガルK
Freesia (フリージア) Feat. Macne Nana by LOQ

Unfortunately other songs have slipped through my fingers and I'll never see them again but I was able to save these 4. So yea any advice on what to do with these?

Hi I'm Holli, I run the NIAONiao Archive

I think Lost media is tragic and I want to help recover it where I can.

Trance Full Member I read the forums like it's the newspaper. Posts: 173	VOCALOID Lost Songs May 17, 2022 17:26:39 GMT via mobile tjs9udfe likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Trance on May 17, 2022 17:26:39 GMT You could upload the files on Archive. I knew a user who uploaded the exclusive version of SeeU's demo songs on there.

cyans
New Member

Posts: 15

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 20, 2022 22:25:54 GMT

Quote

Post by cyans on May 20, 2022 22:25:54 GMT

i think it's better to not upload them without permission. maybe someone who wants to hear them again will find this post and then you can share them privately. but as a friend of someone who has had trouble with people reuploading their old works, i think you should not make these songs public.

crumbelivable
Super God

LMW's skeptic-in-residence

Posts: 2,852

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by crumbelivable on May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT

May 20, 2022 22:25:54 GMT cyans said:

i think it's better to not upload them without permission. maybe someone who wants to hear them again will find this post and then you can share them privately. but as a friend of someone who has had trouble with people reuploading their old works, i think you should not make these songs public.

I don't think we should just give up on finding this just because that's true. If anything, we should attempt to contact the artists of these tracks and fain permission. We're not about just giving up here on these forums.

"oooh, you're a- a freaked out child in the woods..."

somewandonnoob
Junior Member

the uhhhhh

Posts: 99

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 21, 2022 20:36:34 GMT

Quote

Post by somewandonnoob on May 21, 2022 20:36:34 GMT

May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT crumbelivable said:

May 20, 2022 22:25:54 GMT cyans said:

i think it's better to not upload them without permission. maybe someone who wants to hear them again will find this post and then you can share them privately. but as a friend of someone who has had trouble with people reuploading their old works, i think you should not make these songs public.

I don't think we should just give up on finding this just because that's true. If anything, we should attempt to contact the artists of these tracks and fain permission. We're not about just giving up here on these forums.

I was thinking about that two

Please call me SWN or Wandom.
She/he/they/it/ve
Minor

cyans
New Member

Posts: 15

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 22, 2022 17:48:08 GMT

Quote

Post by cyans on May 22, 2022 17:48:08 GMT

May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT crumbelivable said:

May 20, 2022 22:25:54 GMT cyans said:

i think it's better to not upload them without permission. maybe someone who wants to hear them again will find this post and then you can share them privately. but as a friend of someone who has had trouble with people reuploading their old works, i think you should not make these songs public.

I don't think we should just give up on finding this just because that's true. If anything, we should attempt to contact the artists of these tracks and fain permission. We're not about just giving up here on these forums.

i didn't mean to suggest that we shouldn't try contacting the artists-- i think that's a good idea, so i said it's better not to upload the songs without permission.

it's my opinion that not every little piece of lost media needs to be found and made public. in the case of independent artists with "lost" media, i think their point of view is important. their music still belongs to them when they publish it, not the internet, and we should respect that. i know some people would counter that it's the nature of the internet that when you post something it's no longer in your control, but can't we still have some respect for each other? after all, songs are usually deleted for a reason. let's not assume that they're ok with reuploads, especially if it's possible to contact them. again, i'm sensitive to this particular subject due to witnessing what i guess might be considered a more extreme case of reploads hurting an artist, and i'm speaking more as a member of the vocal synth community than one of finding lost media. this is just my take on things.

edit: good news though, looks like expus reuploaded "godlike" themself already:

Last Edit: May 22, 2022 17:54:42 GMT by cyans

tjs9udfe
Seriously Dedicated

constant responder

Posts: 574

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 22, 2022 18:08:41 GMT

Quote

Post by tjs9udfe on May 22, 2022 18:08:41 GMT

May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT crumbelivable said:

I don't think we should just give up on finding this just because that's true. If anything, we should attempt to contact the artists of these tracks and fain permission. We're not about just giving up here on these forums.

The issue here isn't really with finding the songs. It's what we should do with songs that we have copies of.

This does raise some important questions. It seems like the Lost Media community doesn't really have much regard for copyrights and permissions anywhere else.

crumbelivable
Super God

LMW's skeptic-in-residence

Posts: 2,852

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 23, 2022 3:59:48 GMT via mobile tjs9udfe likes this

Quote

Post by crumbelivable on May 23, 2022 3:59:48 GMT

May 22, 2022 18:08:41 GMT tjs9udfe said:

May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT crumbelivable said:

I don't think we should just give up on finding this just because that's true. If anything, we should attempt to contact the artists of these tracks and fain permission. We're not about just giving up here on these forums.

The issue here isn't really with finding the songs. It's what we should do with songs that we have copies of.

This does raise some important questions. It seems like the Lost Media community doesn't really have much regard for copyrights and permissions anywhere else.

I'd like to remind you that copyright fuckery is the main reason a lot of stuff found on these forums, hell, on this wiki, remains lost. Personally, I'm a big believer in the notion that "information wants to be free", as they say in the tech sector. Not that we shouldn't discuss these things with the artist, especially when it's indie musicians like this involved, but yielding to every little whim of copyright is good for nothing but letting big corporations walk all over you and keeping lost media lost.

"oooh, you're a- a freaked out child in the woods..."

tjs9udfe
Seriously Dedicated

constant responder

Posts: 574

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 23, 2022 15:15:22 GMT

Quote

Post by tjs9udfe on May 23, 2022 15:15:22 GMT

Nice! We got some debate going. I have a few objections:

Copyright doesn't have "whims." Copyright law is pretty objective on what it protects and doesn't protect. There may be some ambiguous cases, but those are decided based on case law (in common law countries), and aren't likely to come up here, as users here will simply upload entire copyrighted works.
In terms of ethics, what makes it more ok to upload works from large corporations/less ok to upload works from indie artists?
If artists don't want their works to be reshared, that can also contribute to their media becoming lost. You might just have a local copy on a hard drive, and if your drive goes down, that's one less copy floating around somewhere. Potentially, small artists can be just as guilty as large corporations. If you're categorically more reluctant to reshare content from smaller artists, then those works will be more likely to become lost.

crumbelivable
Super God

LMW's skeptic-in-residence

Posts: 2,852

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 23, 2022 19:41:57 GMT

Quote

Post by crumbelivable on May 23, 2022 19:41:57 GMT

May 23, 2022 15:15:22 GMT tjs9udfe said:

Nice! We got some debate going. I have a few objections:

Copyright doesn't have "whims." Copyright law is pretty objective on what it protects and doesn't protect. There may be some ambiguous cases, but those are decided based on case law (in common law countries), and aren't likely to come up here, as users here will simply upload entire copyrighted works.
In terms of ethics, what makes it more ok to upload works from large corporations/less ok to upload works from indie artists?
If artists don't want their works to be reshared, that can also contribute to their media becoming lost. You might just have a local copy on a hard drive, and if your drive goes down, that's one less copy floating around somewhere. Potentially, small artists can be just as guilty as large corporations. If you're categorically more reluctant to reshare content from smaller artists, then those works will be more likely to become lost.

For two, I suppose it's the fact that often an artist who sells their work to a large corporation will not make a majority of the profit the work creates. For smaller self-publishing artists, that profit is their entire livelihood, so it'd be a little more unfair to them to just have the work offered up somewhere for free. I agree wholeheartedly with your third point, though.

"oooh, you're a- a freaked out child in the woods..."

cyans
New Member

Posts: 15

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 24, 2022 5:13:11 GMT

Quote

Post by cyans on May 24, 2022 5:13:11 GMT

May 23, 2022 15:15:22 GMT tjs9udfe said:

Nice! We got some debate going. I have a few objections:

Copyright doesn't have "whims." Copyright law is pretty objective on what it protects and doesn't protect. There may be some ambiguous cases, but those are decided based on case law (in common law countries), and aren't likely to come up here, as users here will simply upload entire copyrighted works.
In terms of ethics, what makes it more ok to upload works from large corporations/less ok to upload works from indie artists?
If artists don't want their works to be reshared, that can also contribute to their media becoming lost. You might just have a local copy on a hard drive, and if your drive goes down, that's one less copy floating around somewhere. Potentially, small artists can be just as guilty as large corporations. If you're categorically more reluctant to reshare content from smaller artists, then those works will be more likely to become lost.

#2: corporations don't have feelings

#3 is... straight up not a bad thing to me. if an artist wants their art to be lost, i'll let it. they don't owe it to us

Last Edit: May 24, 2022 15:13:34 GMT by cyans: typo

crumbelivable
Super God

LMW's skeptic-in-residence

Posts: 2,852

VOCALOID Lost Songs May 24, 2022 12:50:12 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by crumbelivable on May 24, 2022 12:50:12 GMT

May 24, 2022 5:13:11 GMT cyans said:

May 23, 2022 15:15:22 GMT tjs9udfe said:

Nice! We got some debate going. I have a few objections:

Copyright doesn't have "whims." Copyright law is pretty objective on what it protects and doesn't protect. There may be some ambiguous cases, but those are decided based on case law (in common law countries), and aren't likely to come up here, as users here will simply upload entire copyrighted works.
In terms of ethics, what makes it more ok to upload works from large corporations/less ok to upload works from indie artists?
If artists don't want their works to be reshared, that can also contribute to their media becoming lost. You might just have a local copy on a hard drive, and if your drive goes down, that's one less copy floating around somewhere. Potentially, small artists can be just as guilty as large corporations. If you're categorically more reluctant to reshare content from smaller artists, then those works will be more likely to become lost.

#2: corportations don't have feelings

#3 is... straight up not a bad thing to me. if an artist wants their art to be lost, i'll let it. they don't owe it to us

I just don't feel right about the mindset of number 3 to you. I'd rather we actually try to find important works, even if they were made by small artists. I'd rather these forums didn't descend into looking for foreign dubs and 30 second zombie bumpers and fucking commercials. We need to set ourselves apart from the 13 year olds at LMA.

"oooh, you're a- a freaked out child in the woods..."

phlmhunter Senior Member AI art, Copyright, Lost Media, Fair Use Saga, Goodbye - https://youtu.be/dit78UdLaLA Posts: 376	VOCALOID Lost Songs May 24, 2022 13:38:56 GMT tjs9udfe likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by phlmhunter on May 24, 2022 13:38:56 GMT Given the debate on this thread involving copyright, I encourage everyone to learn about copyright law through this thread - Copyright and lost media preservation
	Goodbye, LMW Forums. Still active on Emir's BTIN on YouTube. See videos on fair use, Philippine lost media, etc. \| Support on Patreon or PayPal

crumbelivable Super God LMW's skeptic-in-residence Posts: 2,852	VOCALOID Lost Songs May 24, 2022 14:47:44 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by crumbelivable on May 24, 2022 14:47:44 GMT Highly educational, thanks for the resources.
	"oooh, you're a- a freaked out child in the woods..."

tjs9udfe Seriously Dedicated constant responder Posts: 574	VOCALOID Lost Songs May 24, 2022 15:04:45 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by tjs9udfe on May 24, 2022 15:04:45 GMT May 24, 2022 5:13:11 GMT cyans said: #2: corportations don't have feelings But they do have money and staff. Piracy isn't in companies' financial interests and can hurt their staff's feelings.

Post by hillibillibob on May 13, 2022 20:22:55 GMT

Post by Trance on May 17, 2022 17:26:39 GMT

Post by cyans on May 20, 2022 22:25:54 GMT

Post by crumbelivable on May 21, 2022 19:35:40 GMT

Post by somewandonnoob on May 21, 2022 20:36:34 GMT

Post by cyans on May 22, 2022 17:48:08 GMT

Post by tjs9udfe on May 22, 2022 18:08:41 GMT

Post by crumbelivable on May 23, 2022 3:59:48 GMT

Post by tjs9udfe on May 23, 2022 15:15:22 GMT

Post by crumbelivable on May 23, 2022 19:41:57 GMT

Post by cyans on May 24, 2022 5:13:11 GMT

Post by crumbelivable on May 24, 2022 12:50:12 GMT

Post by phlmhunter on May 24, 2022 13:38:56 GMT

Post by crumbelivable on May 24, 2022 14:47:44 GMT

Post by tjs9udfe on May 24, 2022 15:04:45 GMT

Discord