If this leaked audio recording is indeed fake, this had better be as close as we can get to the real thing, because let's be honest: the real thing shouldn't ever be found.
As for the audio itself, the only part that seems fake to me is "the moment" itself. Everything else seems authentic enough, even if what she's saying doesn't 100% match the transcripts (which, as far as I can recall aren't even 100% consistent with each other).
May I ask what about "the moment" has you thinking it is fake? To me, I feel that the gunshot is so quick to follow her last words; I am assuming to reach that speed she had to have been raising the gun mid sentence, but I hear no reaction from anyone in the studio. That being said, her intonation and pauses seem very accurate to reality (I remember a newspaper covering the incident mentioned she stopped briefly to smile before saying "blood and guts" which lines up with the pause we hear in the audio).
This. This so much. Honestly there should be a ban on media searches for horrible incidents/death footage. People are still grieving, they don’t need to be continually harassed on a regular basis by a group of sick minded people who just want a video of someone’s loved one dying out there for the internet to enjoy.
Go try finding something else, something better instead of wishing to see someone committing suicide. It’s not right.
Like I said before there should be a ban on death/horrible incident footage searches in the community. Also threads on the topics should be discontinued and banned.
@/dycaite
This 100%. There should not be an article on the Moors Murderers tape for instance. It's stuff like that that made me hesitant to even join this community in the first place. You have to draw the line somewhere.
You have a point, yeah. But wasn't that kind of supposed to be a "fuck you" to gore hounds and the station at the time? Like "You want blood and guts, I'll show you blood and guts!" She gave the public the very thing she's disgusted by.
Someone would not kill themselves on live TV just to prove that point. She was gonna kill herself anyway. It was just like a punk attitude pinned to something she was gonna do anyway.
What bothers me is why they would come HERE to this small, esoteric corner of the internet when there are much bigger fish out there. Take it to a movie studio or some shit. Take it to a bigger facebook group. LMW is small, we have (at best) a few hundred active users. Coming here with a holy grail is going to lead to questions of authenticity, and OP just isn't being open about anything. This isn't the first high effort troll of this material either, recall squid made a pretty convincing fake. It's a lot of day 1 accounts raiding...
It's a high effort troll. A $300 fake rolex. It's a nice rolex, but it is still fake.
Again, why would anyone want their face pinned to this?
I still think your point is 100% valid though that this could be fake.
A lot of my questions really come down to why here? This is a great forum but we aren't even the largest lost media forum on the internet. Sure we are the largest database of lost media articles, but there are discord groups, facebook groups and other websites that have a bigger following. Why the secrecy and if it is so secret, why leak it at all? If you are opening pandora's box and you want it to get out, why HERE? It would take effort to transfer an audio recording to digital then upload it. If the audio is so secret why do it? Why pay to have it digitized? Why upload it if you aren't supposed to, if you aren't supposed to either go big or go home, don't leave it on a midsized website. Take it to cnn or something. There is just no plausible reason to take it here, where we have been fooled in the past and are obsessed with this bit of lost media.
I'm not saying this in an insulting way, but you're thinking about it too much. All their goal was was to get it out in the wild; they achieved it. Their mission is done; they step out.
We care about this way more than CNN... you are overstating its importance in some ways. Because of its nature, I'm not sure it would make any news outlet nowadays, even Sarasota.
If this leaked audio recording is indeed fake, this had better be as close as we can get to the real thing, because let's be honest: the real thing shouldn't ever be found.
As for the audio itself, the only part that seems fake to me is "the moment" itself. Everything else seems authentic enough, even if what she's saying doesn't 100% match the transcripts (which, as far as I can recall aren't even 100% consistent with each other).
Yup. I get gunshots are loud, but that "explosion" seems like the most fake part to me.
♪ Good day, good day, I'm glad you came my way... ♪
Sorry for the double-post, but I just gave the clip another whirl... the gunshot sounds so unreal. Way too overstated. It sounds like a cross between a shotgun blast and bowling strike... just sounds a bit too unrealistic to me... idk.
I'm kinda starting to see shlomo's point of view a bit more now and perhaps got giddy over the fact that dycaite seemed 100% convinced it's real. Her voice is not very unique and seems like it could be replicated... I'm just back and forth on this. When I'm listening to the clip (and especially during the gunshot) I think it's fake, but when I'm typing in this thread I think it's real. Wouldn't be surprised with either outcome. I guess the biggest zinger is that they could somehow get someone with such a close voice to hers involved in this.
After all that rambling, I still stand on it being real. The groan, scramble and falling debris(?) afterward add to its authenticity imo.
♪ Good day, good day, I'm glad you came my way... ♪
Sorry for the double-post, but I just gave the clip another whirl... the gunshot sounds so unreal. Way too overstated. It sounds like a cross between a shotgun blast and bowling strike... just sounds a bit too unrealistic to me... idk.
I'm kinda starting to see shlomo's point of view a bit more now and perhaps got giddy over the fact that dycaite seemed 100% convinced it's real. Her voice is not very unique and seems like it could be replicated... I'm just back and forth on this. When I'm listening to the clip (and especially during the gunshot) I think it's fake, but when I'm typing in this thread I think it's real. Wouldn't be surprised with either outcome. I guess the biggest zinger is that they could somehow get someone with such a close voice to hers involved in this.
After all that rambling, I still stand on it being real. The groan, scramble and falling debris(?) afterward add to its authenticity imo.
To my knowledge the sounds following the gunshot are her hitting the table and then falling out of her chair.
You don't need to worry about stirring the pot, it's cool. You are a legend on this forum and I respect the hell out of you and your opinions. You won't see me getting mad because you have a different opinion. You are awesome man!
With that out of the way, I feel like I can fire back a bit. My hypothesis remains that (unless you know something I don't) it appears to be a high effort troll, likely someone in film school.
The fact that it varies off of the transcript isn't evidence that it is real, it is further evidence that it isn't. I'll concede that transcripts are not perfect or at least are unlikely to be 100% accurate, but that is not proof of authenticity.
As for audio, I understand that this is going to take more than apple garageband and a low quality text to speech software, but her voice isn't exactly unique. This isn't an insult to her, but her voice is pretty similar to about half the women in the upper midwest and carolinas. It wouldn't be too hard for a film student to have a friend with that voice or be the person with that voice. nor would it be impossible to fake audio distortion with the correct software. Like the kind of software that any university with a film/audio program would have. My old community college had professional grade stuff for the film/audio department, it's not hard to come by.
I'm glad to see that we are growing as a community, I'm very happy to see those stats! But we aren't exactly Facebook. We are a small corner of the internet and it is just weird that someone would drop a holy grail with no reasoning behind it and expect us to take it on face value. There are much larger forums than ours, especially after the two movies. Why not post it to the christine movie facebook page? Why not post it to a larger lost media forum? If you can't post it publicly why take the risk or going to this small/midsized website at all? It just seems to me like if they can't post it because of legal issues, they wouldn't have. If they could have posted it without legal issues they would have gone bigger, Like news media bigger. Not our corner of the internet. We just fall into the midsized range of the internet. Think about it, let's say you find the lost 8 hour cut of greed, do you dump it here or do you take it to a film archiving society? I love this place but I bet the archiving society would digitize it for free.
As for his lack of public speaking, I'm sure you know something that I don't since you have been in communication with him but I can only go off of the information that I have seen. From what I have seen, it has been dodgy, troll-like answers with bursts of anger and paper thin reasonings about trust. Anon1974's behavior has been rather odd to say the least with some of his style being unpleasant and confrontational and other times he styles himself as polite and a leaker of a holy grail. At the end of the day he is a new user with no clout and a bunch of day 1 accounts come to confirm everything? That's suspicious to me. While I trust you and your judgement, it is difficult for me to trust a new account waltzing into the forum with a holy grail and no explanation.
I think that it's much more possible to fake audio and we should not doubt that some people have access to high quality software. A film student or audio student at a small university would have access to the software and talent needed to fake this if they put enough time into it. I could easily see this being someone's project for a film class or an audio class and then deciding "hey this is pretty good maybe I should have some fun with this!"
A lot of my questions really come down to why here? This is a great forum but we aren't even the largest lost media forum on the internet. Sure we are the largest database of lost media articles, but there are discord groups, facebook groups and other websites that have a bigger following. Why the secrecy and if it is so secret, why leak it at all? If you are opening pandora's box and you want it to get out, why HERE? It would take effort to transfer an audio recording to digital then upload it. If the audio is so secret why do it? Why pay to have it digitized? Why upload it if you aren't supposed to, if you aren't supposed to either go big or go home, don't leave it on a midsized website. Take it to cnn or something. There is just no plausible reason to take it here, where we have been fooled in the past and are obsessed with this bit of lost media.
Anyway, I respect your opinions and your experience, but I just don't believe we are going to see eye to eye on this. I don't think you need to be randy newman's audio technician to do this. This is more advanced than most but it wouldn't be impossible for a university student to fake.
Firstly, thank you for being cool about this and not turning around and biting my head off like a lot of people on the internet would. That said, I'd like to reply to a few of the additional things you said:
>The fact that it varies off of the transcript isn't evidence that it is real, it is further evidence that it isn't. I'll concede that transcripts are not perfect or at least are unlikely to be 100% accurate, but that is not proof of authenticity.
I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make here. If someone was going to fake this, why would they not just use the transcript verbatim? Why would they intentionally change parts of it, if that is only going to make people think it's fake moreso?
>As for audio, I understand that this is going to take more than apple garageband and a low quality text to speech software, but her voice isn't exactly unique. This isn't an insult to her, but her voice is pretty similar to about half the women in the upper midwest and carolinas.
Pretty similar is something that I could concede, but this voice is a 100% match with Christine's voice as heard here vimeo.com/190367794. Sound-alikes are possible, sure... But to that degree? And they just happened to know this person who sounds *exactly* like her and was willing to do something as disrespectful as faking a dead woman’s final words? I don't buy it. Sure, that happened with the NationSquid video, but she was not a convincing actress in the slightest. The person speaking in this audio has all of the exact same inflections. If it's a fake, then she is either a natural-born sound-alike, or she has done a LOT of practice AND had the right kind of baseline voice to make it all believable by the end.
>Why not post it to a larger lost media forum?
Like what? I'd argue that we *are* the biggest lost media forum (to my knowledge anyway, feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong)... I mean, in terms of activity at least... Maybe some of the lost media based Reddit communities have more "users", but all you have to do to "sign up" for those is click subscribe, so I don't necessarily see it as an equal playing field in terms of how many registered users we have here. Many Redditors will subscribe to a community and then immediately forget about it, but the users who came here and signed up did so with a specific purpose, y'know? Also, Ataliste had a prior interest in lost media, particularly NSFW/L stuff, which (for better or worse) we have had quite a big hand in popularising the interest of over the years. It was this interest in NSFW/L lost media that drove him to seek it out in the first place. So I don't think it's much of a stretch that he would then choose to come here with it after finding it.
>If you can't post it publicly why take the risk or going to this small/midsized website at all?
I think something else you are also failing to take into account is our relationship/reach with YouTubers like blameitonjorge, who have a very big audience. Not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but we are not as small as you seem to think we are, not anymore at least. Futhermore, if you Google 'Christine Chubbuck lost media' our article is the first result… Just saying.
>let’s say you find the lost 8 hour cut of greed, do you dump it here or do you take it to a film archiving society? I love this place but I bet the archiving society would digitize it for free.
He didn’t pay to have it digitised; in fact we don’t know if he paid for it at all, but there were hints that he might have paid for the *tape*. But he certainly never suggested that he paid to have it digitised and I think it would be ridiculous if he did – you can get USB tape converters for like 5 bucks on eBay. Futhermore, I did actually suggest to him to donate the tape to the Library of Congress or similar - just, for what it's worth.
>While I trust you and your judgement, it is difficult for me to trust a new account waltzing into the forum with a holy grail and no explanation.
I’ll be a little more candid about this for transparency’s sake. The person he got it off gave it to him under the condition that the way it was obtained never be made publicly known (probably to avoid any legal issues, like the ones Ataliste might very well be facing right now or in the near future). I get that the lack of an explanation is definitely a red flag, but, please, take it from me, he had a good reason to not divulge those details.
>I think that it's much more possible to fake audio and we should not doubt that some people have access to high quality software. A film student or audio student at a small university would have access to the software and talent needed to fake this if they put enough time into it. I could easily see this being someone's project for a film class or an audio class and then deciding "hey this is pretty good maybe I should have some fun with this!"
As someone who is pretty well versed in editing software, I would challenge anybody to come up with as convincing a fake. I don't believe it can be done, because I believe that is truly her voice. A film student might have access to the software to make it sound like it came from a cassette, but they certainly can’t just modify someone else’s voice to sound identical to Christine’s and they certainly can’t just snap their fingers and find a sound-alike who'd be willing to do this. It simply doesn’t work like that... Sure, if the stars all aligned and the group of people wanting to fake this just so happened to find someone whose voice sounds uncannily identical, then, yeah... But that's just not something that is likely to happen. I feel like the real tape coming to light is a more likely outcome than that, even.
I won’t quote the second to last paragraph because it’s mostly just reiterating things that I have already replied to.
>Anyway, I respect your opinions and your experience, but I just don't believe we are going to see eye to eye on this. I don't think you need to be randy newman's audio technician to do this. This is more advanced than most but it wouldn't be impossible for a university student to fake.
I don't believe we are either, because I simply don't agree with the notion that you could easily fake this (am very open to being proven wrong here, but for now I just can't see it)... If NationSquid was willing to go to the efforts to fake the video, why would he not do the same with the audio, if it was indeed just as easy to fake? Because, well... It's not :/ Even if we look into deepfake territory - it would be impossible to create an algorithm to make it sound exactly the same as her because of how little footage of her speaking we have access to.
Anywho, thank you once again for being willing to have a sensible debate on this all, it's a nice change from the norm online haha...
This 100%. There should not be an article on the Moors Murderers tape for instance. It's stuff like that that made me hesitant to even join this community in the first place. You have to draw the line somewhere.
Y'know what... I agree actually. I've deleted the article. We definitely have a line and there have certainly been instances before where we've declined articles on certain topics. I kept that specific one up this long because apparently the mother of the victim campaigned to have it released so the suffering of her daughter wouldn't be downplayed, but... You're right, it crosses the line regardless. I'm sorry I didn't come to this conclusion sooner.
As for the post you replied to... I just, I dunno. Where do you draw the line with that stuff? Banning people who post about their search efforts for these things? Banning people who just want to discuss the topic at hand? What would the cutoff point be?
I'm sensing something legal maybe brewing in the background for Anon1974. I sincerely hope not. When I talked to him he seemed very adamant about not releasing that portion of the tape until a specific time. I'm not sure what happened, but frankly, I doubt the family will win any lawsuit, should one be filed. Here in the US it's so easy to file a lawsuit, and while I have no idea where this audio came from, some have remarked it sounds like someone is recording either a copy of the tape or the live broadcast. If someone is recording the live broadcast, I would think any legal case is pretty much toast. Supposedly an injunction was obtained against the release of this tape but I would think the injunction would be against WXLT and/or Robert Nelson (the owner). The owner is dead. WXLT doesn't exist. So what leg would they really have to stand on?
Offhand, I remember a FAD user looked into this injunction years ago and they couldn't find any record of it at all. Someone over there also asked why is it only two minutes rather than the eight that were broadcast that morning, I wondered that myself, to be frank. Until I remembered that apparently copies were made right after it happened.
"On the day Chubbuck killed herself, Smitty got a call. “I went down and I saw the tape. I’ll never forget—our program director was dubbing version after version. And we’re going, ‘What are you doing?’ And he’s saying, ‘Everybody’s gonna want this, CBS, NBC, they’re all gonna want it.’ We’re like, ‘You can’t show this shit! This is horrible.’ So the family got involved, and the owner put a clamp on it.”
I remember another FAD member contacted a former employee, it may've been the station director mentioned in that article. His last name was Rickard, I think. He was interviewed for the documentary that aired on E! and I seem to remember that, according to him, those copies were destroyed in the eighties. Could this be the surviving audio from one of those particular copies? The stations listed in that quote wouldn't need all eight minutes, after all.
If this leaked audio recording is indeed fake, this had better be as close as we can get to the real thing, because let's be honest: the real thing shouldn't ever be found.
As for the audio itself, the only part that seems fake to me is "the moment" itself. Everything else seems authentic enough, even if what she's saying doesn't 100% match the transcripts (which, as far as I can recall aren't even 100% consistent with each other).
May I ask what about "the moment" has you thinking it is fake? To me, I feel that the gunshot is so quick to follow her last words; I am assuming to reach that speed she had to have been raising the gun mid sentence, but I hear no reaction from anyone in the studio. That being said, her intonation and pauses seem very accurate to reality (I remember a newspaper covering the incident mentioned she stopped briefly to smile before saying "blood and guts" which lines up with the pause we hear in the audio).
Yes I'm referring to the gunshot itself. It sounds like someone slammed a wrecking ball into the news studio.
Just my two cents, but I don’t think the gunshot sounded unrealistic. With old recording technology and the cramped room, such a loud noise as a gunshot would probably have been distorted by the equipment, overdriving the microphones and making it seem much louder than it actually was.
Granted. But I'm no audio expert so I don't know how badly the distortion has to be in order to turn a gunshot into a demolition, because we're definitely way past the point where it stops sounding like a gunshot and starts sounding like something completely different.
Also I've compared the audio to the scene in Christine where the moment happens, and what she says in the audio is quite in line with what she says in the movie, with the exception, of course, of the liberties taken by the writers to avoid mentioning the actual station and the change in how Christine is feeling during the incident.
Other than the gunshot itself, everything else about the audio seems legitimate. I don't know if audio distortion is enough to realistically distort the sound of the gunshot, so I'll leave that up to people who know more about that than I do.
Last Edit: Apr 12, 2021 15:12:05 GMT by Terry the Cat
I'm sensing something legal maybe brewing in the background for Anon1974. I sincerely hope not. When I talked to him he seemed very adamant about not releasing that portion of the tape until a specific time. I'm not sure what happened, but frankly, I doubt the family will win any lawsuit, should one be filed. Here in the US it's so easy to file a lawsuit, and while I have no idea where this audio came from, some have remarked it sounds like someone is recording either a copy of the tape or the live broadcast. If someone is recording the live broadcast, I would think any legal case is pretty much toast. Supposedly an injunction was obtained against the release of this tape but I would think the injunction would be against WXLT and/or Robert Nelson (the owner). The owner is dead. WXLT doesn't exist. So what leg would they really have to stand on?
Offhand, I remember a FAD user looked into this injunction years ago and they couldn't find any record of it at all. Someone over there also asked why is it only two minutes rather than the eight that were broadcast that morning, I wondered that myself, to be frank. Until I remembered that apparently copies were made right after it happened.
"On the day Chubbuck killed herself, Smitty got a call. “I went down and I saw the tape. I’ll never forget—our program director was dubbing version after version. And we’re going, ‘What are you doing?’ And he’s saying, ‘Everybody’s gonna want this, CBS, NBC, they’re all gonna want it.’ We’re like, ‘You can’t show this shit! This is horrible.’ So the family got involved, and the owner put a clamp on it.”
Actually WXLT does still exist, just under the call sign WWSB (which they changed to in 1986). It's still in Sarasota, Florida, and it's now owned by Gray Television. With regards to the injunction itself, if it exists, would likely still be valid since the station itself still exists in some form.
The writer of Christine read the police report, I think he said as much in the audio commentary when that scene played if my memory serves me correctly.
From what I've read, she didn't just slump forward from the gunshot. She slammed face first into the desk from the descriptions I've read. I will try to source that ASAP. Wiki says "she fell forward violently"
So we have a shot. Someone violently smacking against an anchor desk, face first, the source of that description from wiki thought this was some kind of horrible joke while it was happening in real time. However, the source wrote that the violent smack against the anchor desk looked like Christine had 'really hurt herself". This all took place likely within seconds, within a small room that has microphones.
Whoever said it was audio distortion, I think you're probably right.
The writer read the police report, I think he said as much in the audio commentary when that scene played if my memory serves me correctly.
From what I've read, she didn't just slump forward from the gunshot. She slammed face first into the desk from the descriptions I've read. I will try to source that ASAP.
Maybe the writer DID say that, but what about those people in the E! interview?
Even with the extended clip now available, my stance remains the same.
It isn't authentic unless:
* It's an original off-air recording on a U-Matic cassette or CV-2000 reel (the only two choices for consumer video in the US in 1974) * It's an in-studio recording with visible timecode
No duplicates, audio-only clips, tapes from formats that were only available after 1974, YT videos with no proof of an original analog, or anything even remotely anecdotal. Like, if someone's going to post a video saying "I got it," they need to provide tangible proof. It's just too easy now to take someone at their word.
As for the post you replied to... I just, I dunno. Where do you draw the line with that stuff? Banning people who post about their search efforts for these things? Banning people who just want to discuss the topic at hand? What would the cutoff point be?
Maybe allow topics about such subjects but keep it to a minimum, and refrain from making pages for these altogether?
