So I was scrolling through the wiki and I noticed that there's a subsection that has NSFL that has very nasty stuff... Do we really want this type of stuff found? Or is it just for documentation purposes, if this isn't allowed feel free to delete the post but I'm just wondering why we literally have articles based off of people's deaths caught on camera? Doesn't it seem a bit invasive and kind of disgusting?
Also before anyone says anything no I'm not trying to stop people searching for what they want to look for but I just want to know why there's articles involving that gruesome stuff
I agree with you. These kinds of things should only be searched for by the request of victims' families or for the purpose of identifying criminals. Otherwise, you're a weirdo who likes to watch people die.
The timing of this thread is really a coincidence because I was doing an interview with someone the other day and this exact topic was brought up.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain they are still up and accessible for archival sake. The vast majority of NSFL topics were migrated over from the old site in like 2015 when the community was much smaller and those sort of things were seen as niches or shock content. Nowadays with changing perspectives, I don't think anyone is actually making new articles that discuss that kind of stuff and it's actively discouraged or outright locked when a thread about old or new NSFL stuff is made here.
As someone who is just afraid of literally anything horror related, whether it's in real life or just fiction, I'm fine with having the article category stay up as it is. It would kind of be hypocritical to intentionally purge years of articles. But if need be, I'm sure a disclaimer could be added to those specific articles that mentions they're a look at the past and are not actively being endorsed by the community. Kinda like what they do for the Wartime cartoons and stuff.
Post by SpaceManiac888 on Feb 4, 2025 22:09:06 GMT
For me at least, the concept of the taboo fascinates me. I have no intention of finding anything NSFL-related. Instead, I find the documentation to be by far the most interesting aspect.
In contrast to LSuperSonicQ's comments, NSFL articles are still occasionally published. During October last year, I published 26 NSFL lost media articles for the Wiki. What I learnt during that period was substantial; this included numerous early filming accidents (including Wilhelm Zeitz, M. Otreps, Albert Brighton, M. Leclinche and Dionys Kovalik, Erich Bittner, Elisabeth Imre, Herbert Victor Fox, Richardson Cotton and many others); the first suicide possibly captured on film; the Volunteers of Vacaville audiobooks produced by none other than Edmund Kemper; and a lot of obscure British crime cases (including Habib Saliba and Terrence Delaney).
Even if one hates the media itself, the stories behind them are actually worth preserving. In many cases, Wikipedia will object to them on the grounds of "notability". Hence, for many of the cases I have listed above, the historical information can only be published on the Lost Media Wiki. Sure, one could start a blog or a YouTube channel... but unless one gets fortunate, their content will seldom be seen. In contrast, the Lost Media Wiki articles typically attract thousands of unique viewers. I know this because some of the articles I published last October have been read by nearly 10,000.
In the case of early filming accidents, their documentation is useful in covering how lax safety standards were in the fledgling days of production. They also helped me to debunk claims Franz Reichelt's death was to first to be recorded (Zeitz's passing occurred five years prior). When I documented the Hillsborough disaster on the website, I learnt just how deep South Yorkshire Police were willing to go with their cover-up, including the theft and "disappearances" of CCTV footage and police logbooks. I have also published articles on sporting deaths and how they ultimately helped make the games safer over time. In the end, sometimes one has to examine the dark and taboo side of the planet in order to gain a full perspective. It sometimes also prompts the search for more positive media related to certain subjects. For instance, some have sought to cover the more positive aspects of Christine Chubbuck's life. Meanwhile, I would love it if WWE released Owen Hart's match with Kurt Angle one day.
This Wiki is ultimately no better than - nor worse than - any other documentary, YouTube channel, blog, wiki or platform that tackles true crime, tragedies and disasters. One of my favourite YouTubers for instance is Danielle Kirsty, who covers true crime in a respectful and detailed manner while also doing her makeup. Personally, as long as the author thoroughly researches the topic and doesn't sensationalise the content, I see no problem with it. More importantly, the articles are appropriately tagged NSFL with a banner declaring as such. If one does not want to learn about NSFL topics, they can automatically opt-out.
As for people searching NSFL lost media... it unfortunately happens. As I have mentioned before, I have zero interest in seeking the media, just documenting their stories. However, if a few decide to cross that line, I have no personal responsibility for the surrounding consequences. Ultimately, one has to accept the internet is filled with deviants who lack empathy, social cues and probably intelligence, whom will go too far to get what they want. Heck, hasn't that already happened numerous times in the searches for safe lost media? Regardless, the horse has long since left the barn if people want others to stop talking about and searching for NSFL lost media. Some articles on the Wiki are now almost 13 years old! If one thinks that deleting the articles will curb NSFL discussion, it won't. All it will do is remove useful information while not actually preventing anyone from searching. Once it gets into the mainstream, the NSFL will likely forever remain a popular if controversial part of the lost media bubble.
The timing of this thread is really a coincidence because I was doing an interview with someone the other day and this exact topic was brought up.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain they are still up and accessible for archival sake. The vast majority of NSFL topics were migrated over from the old site in like 2015 when the community was much smaller and those sort of things were seen as niches or shock content. Nowadays with changing perspectives, I don't think anyone is actually making new articles that discuss that kind of stuff and it's actively discouraged or outright locked when a thread about old or new NSFL stuff is made here.
As someone who is just afraid of literally anything horror related, whether it's in real life or just fiction, I'm fine with having the article category stay up as it is. It would kind of be hypocritical to intentionally purge years of articles. But if need be, I'm sure a disclaimer could be added to those specific articles that mentions they're a look at the past and are not actively being endorsed by the community. Kinda like what they do for the Wartime cartoons and stuff.
So from what I'm reading it's just for documentation from when this community was smaller and there's no point of removing them correct?, also how would it be hypocritical?
As for people searching NSFL lost media... it unfortunately happens. As I have mentioned before, I have zero interest in seeking the media, just documenting their stories. However, if a few decide to cross that line, I have no personal responsibility for the surrounding consequences. Ultimately, one has to accept the internet is filled with deviants who lack empathy, social cues and probably intelligence, whom will go too far to get what they want. Heck, hasn't that already happened numerous times in the searches for safe lost media? Regardless, the horse has long since left the barn if people want others to stop talking about and searching for NSFL lost media. Some articles on the Wiki are now almost 13 years old! If one thinks that deleting the articles will curb NSFL discussion, it won't. All it will do is remove useful information while not actually preventing anyone from searching. Once it gets into the mainstream, the NSFL will likely forever remain a popular if controversial part of the lost media bubble.
This part of what you said really stuck out to me, the fact that you're not some sick deviant who likes gore and just wants to document what happened and how it happened and not search for the video is amazing
Also yeah the lost media community really shouldn't harass people just to look for a lost pilot/show/music ect, don't harass innocent animators/producers who did no wrong, if anything blame the ceos for something being lost to time
The reason for it being hypocritical is the fact that the Wiki would actively be seeking out and deleting their own content intentionally, making all that information lost essentially. There was a smaller debate with article content many years ago, about whether or not topics that were "fake" like Kablam Episode 29 or A Day With SpongeBob should even remain on the site since they never existed. But the conclusion was reached that the articles should remain as they are for information purposes and as far as I know have never been touched.
Since I don't follow NSFL stuff, I didn't know SpaceManiac888 had published that many so I stand corrected (though I don't know if this counts as an outlier or how many other people are actively publishing NSFL stuff). But my interpretation of this thread came from a wider perspective, that while some intentions or historical reasoning could justify them being on the site, they are largely seen as a negative by the general public, which is almost what the whole point of this thread was commenting on in the first place.
Christine Chubbuck is probably one of the most infamous examples of this. I know some of the older threads that discussed it were very messy with outlandish ideas for who to contact for a copy, family members being named etc. Perhaps it comes down to the amount of connection associated parties have to a topic or how they could be reached. Like I could see an argument being made for why the Owen Hart tape, being held by an entire company, is in a different level of NSFL content compared to Grizzly Man audio that was more of a personal recording, and Lol Superman which was the direct result of a terrorist attack and at its core was filmed in jest.
I do agree that the actions of a few cannot dictate the intentions of everyone, but we have seen a direct connection between "bad eggs" and the level of publicity normal topics receive as well. I hate to use Me and My Friends as an example because it's so obvious, but that basically went into a private group because there were too many people bothering former crew members that we already contacted. I don't blame myself or the searchers for letting that happen because it wasn't our intention, but without a doubt I wouldn't feel right continuously posting names in public without knowing who is going to be contacting them. And by association NSFL topics are like this, but 10x worse when left in the wrong hands.
The reason for it being hypocritical is the fact that the Wiki would actively be seeking out and deleting their own content intentionally, making all that information lost essentially. There was a smaller debate with article content many years ago, about whether or not topics that were "fake" like Kablam Episode 29 or A Day With SpongeBob should even remain on the site since they never existed. But the conclusion was reached that the articles should remain as they are for information purposes and as far as I know have never been touched.
Since I don't follow NSFL stuff, I didn't know SpaceManiac888 had published that many so I stand corrected (though I don't know if this counts as an outlier or how many other people are actively publishing NSFL stuff). But my interpretation of this thread came from a wider perspective, that while some intentions or historical reasoning could justify them being on the site, they are largely seen as a negative by the general public, which is almost what the whole point of this thread was commenting on in the first place.
Christine Chubbuck is probably one of the most infamous examples of this. I know some of the older threads that discussed it were very messy with outlandish ideas for who to contact for a copy, family members being named etc. Perhaps it comes down to the amount of connection associated parties have to a topic or how they could be reached. Like I could see an argument being made for why the Owen Hart tape, being held by an entire company, is in a different level of NSFL content compared to Grizzly Man audio that was more of a personal recording, and Lol Superman which was the direct result of a terrorist attack and at its core was filmed in jest.
I do agree that the actions of a few cannot dictate the intentions of everyone, but we have seen a direct connection between "bad eggs" and the level of publicity normal topics receive as well. I hate to use Me and My Friends as an example because it's so obvious, but that basically went into a private group because there were too many people bothering former crew members that we already contacted. I don't blame myself or the searchers for letting that happen because it wasn't our intention, but without a doubt I wouldn't feel right continuously posting names in public without knowing who is going to be contacting them. And by association NSFL topics are like this, but 10x worse when left in the wrong hands.
wait people were contacting family members to see a Gore tape of a woman shooting herself? Nah that's disgusting, also some bad apples do ruin searches by harassing people for no reason, also IDC what people say but lol superman should stay lost, that recording has someone's family member being turned into goop, if people actually look for NSFL just to see gore they need to seek help