I think someone creeping the forum wanted to throw a wrench in things (why who knows). Honestly, I don't think it being an ARG makes sense, I guess emphasis on FAILED ARG, but still it just seems like a convenient answer that someone came up with while reading theories on this forum or even from blameitonjorge's video.
But this person being fake in the forum doesn't prove PMC's legitimacy or not. I'm still split myself, we kinda need a missing piece that will tie loose ends. Such as finding that "Everything's Coming Up Spring" song somewhere else, or more proof that Jenkem was capable of making these videos or has a friend that could have made these.
The problem is that is we might not find anything more about this than what we have already. That goes for if it's real or of it's fake. This could be all there is no matter which of those is correct.
I don't quite see why anyone would be unsure about it, though. The important question at the moment is "does the evidence we do have currently support it being real?" and I just don't see how, considering the fairly substantial list of problems I wrote a few pages back, someone could read those and still honestly answer that question with a "Yes" and assume it's not a fake. To critically evaluate the information here - which all suggests it's not a genuine video - and somehow still think it could be real, just seems baffling to me. It's perfectly fine to change your mind when/if there's something to lean things in the other direction, but if reasons for currently saying it could be real basically comes down to "believe-ability" or "It just seems like it could be" and has to involve omitting those problems from that consideration, then that's not how this sort of thing should work, really.
It's basically on one side you've got lots of reasons that just don't fit in the slightest with the idea of it being fully real, and the other there's nothing to support it being real but his word - and we know that can't be trusted because he said himself he can't vouch for the video's credibility, so what/why would there be a point of contention that causes doubt about it being fake?
I don't mean to come across as harsh about that or something, I just really don't get why.
No I totally get where you're coming from.
But I think the biggest thing I go back to is that a lot of people had reason to think Clockman was fake. It was a random post with zero proof, only that it probably aired on Pinwheel. I'm pretty sure even the people who were involved with Pinwheel at the time were contacted and they had no idea what it was. A lot of people for years doubted it's legitimacy. It had very loose ties to Pinwheel and the fact that the channel was known to air random cartoons from across the world, which is sorta similar to this situation.
Granted, this is a bit different because we have legitimate clips we can analyze. Someone in the forum said that the VHS effects were real, and you pointed out that the hat song doesn't match the original clips. So where does that leave us?
It could 100% be fake, but if so I want the how and why. I want to know why were these 10 year old clips chosen, how did they do the VHS effect (which someone else explained how that was possible), and how did they create the CGI? Then there is the why, why do this? If it's not an ARG then what is the goal here?
But I think certain things pointing to it being fake as "it's too creepy on purpose" just doesn't fly with me because I've seen a lot of offputting children's programs, especially involving old CGI. I kept bringing up M3D here because boy were those videos unintentionally WEIRD.
That's why I'm skeptical of saying they're real or fake. I just need that last kernel of info, which usually always eventually comes out. Either by Jenkem's own admission, or possibly whoever helped him make these videos popping up. Or maybe we finally find SOMETHING (the song, an animation asset, proof that the channel aired something like this) and that can tell us where to go from there.
But yeah they are fishy especially with the hat song clips being the biggest piece of evidence, along with Jenkem's wishy washy statements about editing.
The problem is that is we might not find anything more about this than what we have already. That goes for if it's real or of it's fake. This could be all there is no matter which of those is correct.
I don't quite see why anyone would be unsure about it, though. The important question at the moment is "does the evidence we do have currently support it being real?" and I just don't see how, considering the fairly substantial list of problems I wrote a few pages back, someone could read those and still honestly answer that question with a "Yes" and assume it's not a fake. To critically evaluate the information here - which all suggests it's not a genuine video - and somehow still think it could be real, just seems baffling to me. It's perfectly fine to change your mind when/if there's something to lean things in the other direction, but if reasons for currently saying it could be real basically comes down to "believe-ability" or "It just seems like it could be" and has to involve omitting those problems from that consideration, then that's not how this sort of thing should work, really.
It's basically on one side you've got lots of reasons that just don't fit in the slightest with the idea of it being fully real, and the other there's nothing to support it being real but his word - and we know that can't be trusted because he said himself he can't vouch for the video's credibility, so what/why would there be a point of contention that causes doubt about it being fake?
I don't mean to come across as harsh about that or something, I just really don't get why.
No I totally get where you're coming from.
But I think the biggest thing I go back to is that a lot of people had reason to think Clockman was fake. It was a random post with zero proof, only that it probably aired on Pinwheel. I'm pretty sure even the people who were involved with Pinwheel at the time were contacted and they had no idea what it was. A lot of people for years doubted it's legitimacy. It had very loose ties to Pinwheel and the fact that the channel was known to air random cartoons from across the world, which is sorta similar to this situation.
Granted, this is a bit different because we have legitimate clips we can analyze. Someone in the forum said that the VHS effects were real, and you pointed out that the hat song doesn't match the original clips. So where does that leave us?
It could 100% be fake, but if so I want the how and why. I want to know why were these 10 year old clips chosen, how did they do the VHS effect (which someone else explained how that was possible), and how did they create the CGI? Then there is the why, why do this? If it's not an ARG then what is the goal here?
But I think certain things pointing to it being fake as "it's too creepy on purpose" just doesn't fly with me because I've seen a lot of offputting children's programs, especially involving old CGI. I kept bringing up M3D here because boy were those videos unintentionally WEIRD.
That's why I'm skeptical of saying they're real or fake. I just need that last kernel of info, which usually always eventually comes out. Either by Jenkem's own admission, or possibly whoever helped him make these videos popping up. Or maybe we finally find SOMETHING (the song, an animation asset, proof that the channel aired something like this) and that can tell us where to go from there.
But yeah they are fishy especially with the hat song clips being the biggest piece of evidence, along with Jenkem's wishy washy statements about editing.
The difference between this and something like Clockman being doubted is that that something like that didn't have anything to directly evaluate to determine credibility in the first place - Without proof there were reasons to think either way with Clockmans legitimacy and it basically came down to have believable it was. That sort of situation was more a test of its elusiveness as such, where finding some evidence of it was the important part, but here it's backwards - we have evidence, evaluating whether that's real is the first priority regardless of finding the "show" or not. It's quite a different criteria for determining credibility and legitimacy.
Things like the distortion effect potentially seeming real don't really add much extra credibility really, it just adds a possible explanation for that aspect of it, and it was an issue based on an lack of knowledge in the first place. I've not actually watched that example someone posted though so I'm not sure how similar it is though. There are still plenty of other reasons to think it's fake and that part of the distortion was pretty much the least problematic issue - there's still absolutely no explanation for the distortion fixing and changing itself, or the scene getting longer etc.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2020 11:53:51 GMT by thevoiddragon
Idk I'm literally just gonna wait until there is more info. I guess you feel it's been officially debunked, which is fine. But I keep saying that I want the whole story whether it's real or fake, that's what I'm interested in. Maybe Jenkem will never admit it's fake, but I actually think if he really went through all of this trouble, that he is going to want to 100% explain his work because there was obviously a lot of effort put into this.
Also, if it's real, I really do want to understand these discrepancies then. Some people here still seem split so I think there needs to be a final nail in the coffin.
Idk I'm literally just gonna wait until there is more info. I guess you feel it's been officially debunked, which is fine. But I keep saying that I want the whole story whether it's real or fake, that's what I'm interested in. Maybe Jenkem will never admit it's fake, but I actually think if he really went through all of this trouble, that he is going to want to 100% explain his work because there was obviously a lot of effort put into this.
Also, if it's real, I really do want to understand these discrepancies then. Some people here still seem split so I think there needs to be a final nail in the coffin.
That the video was uploaded over 10 years ago but only recently got posted as "Lost Media" sort of suggests to me that he might not be bothered about explaining it. I don't think someone who'd wait that long is going to be in a rush to explain it all anytime soon, he could have done so at any point over the past decade but didn't.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2020 12:34:03 GMT by thevoiddragon
Idk I'm literally just gonna wait until there is more info. I guess you feel it's been officially debunked, which is fine. But I keep saying that I want the whole story whether it's real or fake, that's what I'm interested in. Maybe Jenkem will never admit it's fake, but I actually think if he really went through all of this trouble, that he is going to want to 100% explain his work because there was obviously a lot of effort put into this.
Also, if it's real, I really do want to understand these discrepancies then. Some people here still seem split so I think there needs to be a final nail in the coffin.
That the video was uploaded over 10 years ago but only recently got posted as "Lost Media" sort of suggests to me that he might not be bothered about explaining it. He could have done so at any point over the past decade, but didn't.
But was he claiming for the last 10 years it was lost media? From what I understood it was just titled "?" Also, he did not get this much attention until now, even when I checked back in April there were only a handful of comments. Blameitonjorge's video put a ton of eyes on him, I really think if he faked this then it's only a matter of time before be cracks. I'd also wager you are not the only one to figure out why the clips don't match, people are gonna be pointing that out to him. If he does upload that "full version" of the video it's only going to be more proof at this point. I'm telling you, the other shoe is gonna drop, it's just a matter of when.
Post by Terry the Cat on Jun 26, 2020 14:04:30 GMT
He's apparently out of town at the moment, so we will have to wait a while. But it's only a matter of time... Something is bound to happen, but until then, be very skeptical. Not everything is going to end up like a Clock Man (since I saw it get brought up once again, as if everything is going to be compared to it) because Clock Man is the exception, rather than the time.
He's apparently out of town at the moment, so we will have to wait a while. But it's only a matter of time... Something is bound to happen, but until then, be very skeptical. Not everything is going to end up like a Clock Man (since I saw it get brought up once again, as if everything is going to be compared to it) because Clock Man is the exception, rather than the time.
I of course don't expect everything to be like Clockman, but I guess I just remember how a lot of people assumed it was fake and it was genuinely shocking it was found. I think it's okay to be both skeptical but curious, like I said either way I do expect there to eventually be some kind of explanation.
I'm going through all, and I mean ALL the Sky Angels children shows. What year should I start searching?
Think I may have found a lead but I can't find any episodes. CMJ Clubzone's description on the site is, "Curious Cam-Man, Artie, and the Tree House Kids help kids learn amazing Bible truths by studying nature, archeology and songs." This may be where Everything's Coming Up Spring is from. Just a guess, but interesting nonetheless.
I'm going through all, and I mean ALL the Sky Angels children shows. What year should I start searching?
Think I may have found a lead but I can't find any episodes. CMJ Clubzone's description on the site is, "Curious Cam-Man, Artie, and the Tree House Kids help kids learn amazing Bible truths by studying nature, archeology and songs." This may be where Everything's Coming Up Spring is from. Just a guess, but interesting nonetheless.
Another one that raises my eyebrows that I can't find anything for is Playsongs, hosted by Karyn Henley. I reached out to her tho
Think I may have found a lead but I can't find any episodes. CMJ Clubzone's description on the site is, "Curious Cam-Man, Artie, and the Tree House Kids help kids learn amazing Bible truths by studying nature, archeology and songs." This may be where Everything's Coming Up Spring is from. Just a guess, but interesting nonetheless.
Another one that raises my eyebrows that I can't find anything for is Playsongs, hosted by Karyn Henley. I reached out to her tho
Could be TLN Kids Time TV. Description reads, "Fun-filled stories, songs, and animation teach kids important character lessons."
Another one that raises my eyebrows that I can't find anything for is Playsongs, hosted by Karyn Henley. I reached out to her tho
Could be TLN Kids Time TV. Description reads, "Fun-filled stories, songs, and animation teach kids important character lessons."
Holy shi- disregard my last posts a bit. "TOOTEE PARADISE - For ages 3-9. A paradise where “Tootee,” a story-telling bird, shares stories for successful living through “live animation.”' This may actually be it. In Spring, the two animals we see the most are a bird and a rabbit, but it never tells us which one is singing. Also, "Real-Time Animation, also called “Live Animation,” or “Real-Time Performance Capture,” is the process of using a motion capture system to puppet a 3D character live" which could explain the weird movements in "? ? ?" and PMC. Also can't any episodes online. This one gives me a good feeling.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2020 20:13:11 GMT by garethfire: Grammar
Could be TLN Kids Time TV. Description reads, "Fun-filled stories, songs, and animation teach kids important character lessons."
Holy shi- disregard my last posts a bit. "TOOTEE PARADISE - For ages 3-9. A paradise where “Tootee,” a story-telling bird, shares stories for successful living through “live animation.”' This may actually be it. In Spring, the two animals we see the most are a bird and a rabbit, but it never tells us which one is singing. Also, "Real-Time Animation, also called “Live Animation,” or “Real-Time Performance Capture,” is the process of using a motion capture system to puppet a 3D character live" which could explain the weird movements in "? ? ?" and PMC. Also can't any episodes online. This one gives me a good feeling.
This is probably our best lead. Problem? Can't find ANYTHING online. Not even a promo so we can't see what it looks like.