Is there any way that we could possibly get in touch with Simon Pummel about if Butcher’s Hook actually aired on Nickelodeon or CBC in South America?
There were attempts to, but no success getting in contact with Simon Pummel. However, OP was able to get in contact with the film's cowriter, who said:
"how wonderful that that strange little film wandered so far! I don't have any specific information about its screening history -- you could always contact Hot Property Films in London for that. I imagine it was part of a package of British animations bought as a job lot from the UK distributor Channel 4. The director Pummell and I went our separate ways after that one but we still keep in touch. It was an interesting moment..."
I checked out the r/tipofmytongue post again, and OP thinks it could have aired on an adult cartoon channel called Locomotion, which had a programming block called Locomotia that showed animated shorts from around the world.
OP also states:
"I can confirm that Locomotion aired NFB content. Now there is a HUGE possibility that I saw Butcher's Hook and Strange Invaders on Locomotion. I believe we are about to crack this and close the case soon."
It just doesn’t add up fully with the OP’s original description
There is no “hands holding a butcher’s knife; butchering animals made out of real bones”.
Also, only the hands of the butcher are supposed to be shown in white, against a blank black background (ie, why I instantly started thinking about A Show Of Hands; even though ASOH never actually made a short film with such a graphic plot)
My thought of how the butcher short film would look would be like this:
Picture A Show Of Hands, but with the hands holding a knife 🔪 and fiddling with a skeleton of animal (🐱🐰🐶) then the skeletons scare the pair of hands away (ie rebelling)
Then a orange Nickelodeon title card pops up probably shaped like a hand.
Now doesn’t that sound a lot closer to the original OP description?
It sounds like it could possibly exist, deep inside Nickelodeon’s vaults.
Last Edit: Aug 23, 2020 15:20:48 GMT by allthat182
But Butcher’s Hook isn’t an animated short film, it’s mostly live-action, and Simon Pummel himself states that it is an experimental short film
It's definitely an experimental film, but its use of animation could also be considered experimental animation.
On the Wikipedia page for Locomotion, it says they aired A Chairy Tale, which features a lot of live action bits mixed in with stop motion and pixilation (pixilation is stop-motion using the human body). It's considered a classic in experimental animation.
Again, I think it's always good to keep our minds open to possibilities, but in my opinion Butcher's Hook is a good fit. Not perfect by any means, but neither is memory. It was made in the right time period, it has similar themes, OP seems to recognize it, and it likely could have aired on the Locomotion channel, which was specifically a Latin American channel which also showed animation from the US, UK, and Canada.
The case isn't closed though. We don't have 100% confirmation that Butcher's Hook ever aired on Locomotion. If we did find out that Butcher's Hook aired on Locomotion, I would personally be satisfied and call it case closed.
You might not, and that's totally fine. But keep in mind, if you believe the real short is out there and that it aired on Nickelodeon as OP initially stated, it would have to meet the following criteria:
1) Aired during the correct time period (2001-2004)
2) At the correct locality (Latin American Television)
How could Butcher’s Hook have aired on Nickelodeon, even if it originally aired on Locomotion?
For crying out loud, the film shows the corpse of a rabbit floating in a jar of acid with it’s guts spilling out. 😱 and it also shows the body slowly dissolve until all that’s left is its real bones....oh wait😐
Did you notify OP about A Show Of Hands yet? As a basic background model?
Last Edit: Aug 23, 2020 20:43:27 GMT by allthat182
How could Butcher’s Hook have aired on Nickelodeon, even if it originally aired on Locomotion?
For crying out loud, the film shows the corpse of a rabbit floating in a jar of acid with it’s guts spilling out. 😱 and it also shows the body slowly dissolve until all that’s left is its real bones....oh wait😐
Did you notify OP about A Show Of Hands yet? As a basic background model?
But Butcher’s Hook isn’t an animated short film, it’s mostly live-action, and Simon Pummel himself states that it is an experimental short film
It's definitely an experimental film, but its use of animation could also be considered experimental animation.
On the Wikipedia page for Locomotion, it says they aired A Chairy Tale, which features a lot of live action bits mixed in with stop motion and pixilation (pixilation is stop-motion using the human body). It's considered a classic in experimental animation.
Again, I think it's always good to keep our minds open to possibilities, but in my opinion Butcher's Hook is a good fit. Not perfect by any means, but neither is memory. It was made in the right time period, it has similar themes, OP seems to recognize it, and it likely could have aired on the Locomotion channel, which was specifically a Latin American channel which also showed animation from the US, UK, and Canada.
The case isn't closed though. We don't have 100% confirmation that Butcher's Hook ever aired on Locomotion. If we did find out that Butcher's Hook aired on Locomotion, I would personally be satisfied and call it case closed.
You might not, and that's totally fine. But keep in mind, if you believe the real short is out there and that it aired on Nickelodeon as OP initially stated, it would have to meet the following criteria:
1) Aired during the correct time period (2001-2004)
2) At the correct locality (Latin American Television)
3) With the same or similar plot points
Do you have a YT Link or a video link of that episode? I would really like to look into this.
How could Butcher’s Hook have aired on Nickelodeon, even if it originally aired on Locomotion?
For crying out loud, the film shows the corpse of a rabbit floating in a jar of acid with it’s guts spilling out. 😱 and it also shows the body slowly dissolve until all that’s left is its real bones....oh wait😐
Did you notify OP about A Show Of Hands yet? As a basic background model?
I'm saying it did not appear on Nickelodeon, it appeared on Locomotion. OP even says that they could have easily been channel flipping and saw it on Locomotion and just assumed it was Nickelodeon because it was animated.
Locomotion used to be an all-ages animation channel. But Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network were already available for the younger demographic, so they switched to adult animation instead so they wouldn't have to compete for the younger audience viewership.
It's very plausible that a younger person could find the channel, see the animation, and assume it was a channel they were more familiar with (Nickelodeon) when it was, in reality, Locomotion.
I don't have direct contact with OP because I don't have a Reddit Account. I'll probably make one at some point, but I've only been assisting in the search, I haven't spoken to anyone outside this thread and on discord.
So Locomotion as a channel was kind of like the other channel, Teletoon?
In case you didn’t know, Teletoon was another all ages access channel from Canada 🇨🇦. (Occasionally airing programming originally distributed from CBC and NFB) They aired their programming each day in 4 distinct blocks; each one created for its own specific age demographic:
First block (morning), was known as “Morning Planet” and it’s programming was made for preschoolers and little kids (think of how we had Nick Jr and Playhouse Disney).
Second block (Afternoon) was known as “Afternoon Planet” and it was intended to be for grade-school/middle school kids.
Third block (Evening) was known as “Evening Planet” and was intended to be for older kids and young adults (high school and college).
Fourth block (Night) was known as “Night Planet” and was strictly intended as programming for older adults.
My theory at one point was that “Butcher’s Hook” (or different films with a similar plot) could have aired on the Night Planet block, (which stayed on in the early morning) where OP could have unintentionally seen one of their experimental stop-motion films for adults. (Usually with much darker plots.
If you don’t believe me yet, then check out some of the station IDs created for the Night Planet (utilizing stop-motion paper mache animation, with more mature themes)
Here’s a few of the Night Planet IDs from this block (from the 90s to 2005)
So Locomotion as a channel was kind of like the other channel, Teletoon?
In case you didn’t know, Teletoon was another all ages access channel from Canada 🇨🇦. (Occasionally airing programming originally distributed from CBC and NFB) They aired their programming each day in 4 distinct blocks; each one created for its own specific age demographic:
First block (morning), was known as “Morning Planet” and it’s programming was made for preschoolers and little kids (think of how we had Nick Jr and Playhouse Disney).
Second block (Afternoon) was known as “Afternoon Planet” and it was intended to be for grade-school/middle school kids.
Third block (Evening) was known as “Evening Planet” and was intended to be for older kids and young adults (high school and college).
Fourth block (Night) was known as “Night Planet” and was strictly intended as programming for older adults.
My theory at one point was that “Butcher’s Hook” (or different films with a similar plot) could have aired on the Night Planet block, (which stayed on in the early morning) where OP could have unintentionally seen one of their experimental stop-motion films for adults. (Usually with much darker plots.
If you don’t believe me yet, then check out some of the station IDs created for the Night Planet (utilizing stop-motion paper mache animation, with more mature themes)
Here’s a few of the Night Planet IDs from this block (from the 90s to 2005)
Very cool! From what I've read, Locomotion was like if Night Planet was the whole channel. Here's the wiki page for Locomotion, it goes over a bit of its history and it has a list of shorts that aired on the channel. Also, the tipofmytongue post has edits in which OP discusses Locomotion.
Butcher's Hook is not on that list of shorts on the Wikipedia page, but the list might not be complete.
Locomotion seems to have a very dedicated fan base to this day. If you look up Cortos Locomotion (Locomotion Shorts in Spanish) you can find some playlists people have put together of some of the shorts.
Butcher's Hook is not in any of them, but it was also not available on Youtube (only Vimeo) until 2 months ago. Most of these playlists are made up of videos found around Youtube, not personal uploads. A lot of the shorts they aired are available somewhere on Youtube, but not all of them.
I'm going to watch through the shorts listed on the wiki just in case. I've seen some of them, and they can be NSFW, so if anyone wants to watch them just keep that in mind, lol.
I don't know who would be a good person to contact in order to confirm that Butcher's Hook aired on Locomotion. Someone who helped with the programming, maybe?
If you were in any way involved with the search for the Pinwheel short film: O Paradive Sally, (ie Clockman) then you would know that the best way to get in touch with someone who was THE one in charge of which shorts aired on the channel. With the former case of Clockman, this person was Executive Producer of Shorts: Lois Fortune (known by her credited nickname “Tippi”
In this particular case:
• the people who were DIRECTLY involved with choosing which shorts aired on CBC
• Executive Producer in charge of the experimental short films that were aired on Locomotion
• the head executive members of who currently own the rights to older NFB programming
Sift through older TV listings from the Teletoon Night Planet block (between 1997 & 2005)
Take a look at this one image and tell me if you don’t see the “animal bones fusing together, creating an abomination
The video short in this link doesn’t feature the bone puppets, leading me to believe that Ragnarok is small series of experimental stop-motion short films
Take a look at this one image and tell me if you don’t see the “animal bones fusing together, creating an abomination
The video short in this link doesn’t feature the bone puppets, leading me to believe that Ragnarok is small series of experimental stop-motion short films
Unfortunately, the studio itself wasn't formed until 2006, according to its about page. It's a Danish studio, and Ragnarok was made in 2016 in collaboration with a Lithuanian studio called Art Shot. It might be helpful to look at previous work from the artists who work for these studios, but that could be pretty time consuming.
I still personally think a better use of time would be to confirm if Butcher's Hook ever aired on Locomotion. I'm also happy to look at any leads you might have, but just make sure they fit the time period and location.
You might want to reconsider Butcher’s Hook being The Butcher.
It wasn’t until I watched BH through earbuds that I realized that the shirtless man actually muttered a small piece of dialogue at around the midway point in the film
Did he actually? Or was it just a random sound of ambience?