I don't expect much of a hunt for these as I presume most members here (myself included) are way too young to have ever seen any of these shows live, but a remarkable amount of Nickelodeon's launch line-up, besides Pinwheel, seems to be near totally lost. I also highly doubt the masters exist for the majority of these programs considering their age, and if they do whether they'd be within the Viacom vaults or in someone's house in Columbus. We don't even have episode counts for the majority of these. Some examples
Nickel Flicks - No footage found (what happened to the pre-taped segments? Destroyed?) By The Way - No footage OR EVEN A SHOW SUMMARY found Video Comic Book - Two episodes found (Apparently 70 segments were made, did this even have a budget?)
Hocus Focus - Short clips on YouTube available PopClips - One episode is on YouTube split into chunks with some missing audio, as well as bumpers and clips
I don't feel like indexing every show, the majority of them are virtually non-existent regarding footage.
Also, I'm not a member on the Classic Nick Shows tracker so if someone else is and can tell us what they've got from this era that'd be dope
Post by theCarbonFreeze on May 25, 2021 9:30:28 GMT
With Paramount+ bringing Eureeka's Castle and a bunch of other lost media "holy grails" into the mainstream again, I decided to check if some of these might have been saved also. No dice, unfortunately. Not even Pinwheel.
Most of these programs sound like they were just glorified clip shows of old film serials and recycled cartoons. They would be of no interest to anyone today except for their historical value. They still absolutely ought to be saved, but I won't exactly be marathoning them if they do. It's almost certainly a combination of copyright for the licensed footage, plus the (correct) assumption that no one will actually watch them that's holding up their release on Paramount+. Further complicating matters is that Nickelodeon used to be owned by Warner Bros when a lot of these first-generation programs were airing. When Nickelodeon was sold to Viacom, did that include the rights for these shows or does Warner Bros still retain them? I don't know, but that could be another factor in their non-appearance over the years.
With Paramount+ bringing Eureeka's Castle and a bunch of other lost media "holy grails" into the mainstream again, I decided to check if some of these might have been saved also. No dice, unfortunately. Not even Pinwheel.
Most of these programs sound like they were just glorified clip shows of old film serials and recycled cartoons. They would be of no interest to anyone today except for their historical value. They still absolutely ought to be saved, but I won't exactly be marathoning them if they do. It's almost certainly a combination of copyright for the licensed footage, plus the (correct) assumption that no one will actually watch them that's holding up their release on Paramount+. Further complicating matters is that Nickelodeon used to be owned by Warner Bros when a lot of these first-generation programs were airing. When Nickelodeon was sold to Viacom, did that include the rights for these shows or does Warner Bros still retain them? I don't know, but that could be another factor in their non-appearance over the years.
Yeah, a lot of the shows they aired in their first year were taking pre-existing content and putting an original framing device around them. I think the only two that weren't were America Goes Bananaz (which I'm just realizing isn't on this list for some reason) and Video Comics. Nick didn't have much of a budget back then. They actually could do Pinwheel and Nickel Flicks to an extent. They dropped the acquired shorts from Pinwheel sometime in 1989 so they could release it on Paramount+ like that (although I personally wouldn't like it as much that way), and some of what was on Nickel Flicks is in the public domain. I doubt we'll be seeing either though, especially the latter. And it does seem the rights for their shows during the Warner years did transfer over to Viacom. They definitely still own Pinwheel and presumably Nickel Flicks, By The Way, and Hocus Focus as well. I'm not sure about Video Comics and America Goes Bananaz though because they were originally QUBE shows. And I could be wrong, but I think Michael Nesmith owns PopClips (which as mentioned is a 1980 show but thought I should clear that one up since it's on this list anyway).
Last Edit: May 25, 2021 11:02:41 GMT by PinkieLopBun
Would full episodes of Pinwheel be put on Paramount+?
(Because it aired on the Nick Jr. block until 1990)
They probably could put Pinwheel on Paramount+ if they cut the shorts. They did the same thing with Eureeka's Castle. I doubt they will, though.
Also, I don't see what All That has to do with this. This is about the 1979 lineup. All That didn't come until years later.
It seems like, with Eureeka, they didnt cut out the licensed shorts so much as withhold the episodes that contained them. We only have 26 episodes of the third season and all of them are both 22 minutes long and have cutaways to segments of kids playing on a playground or something. My hunch is the rest of S3 plus the first two seasons (which were an hour long) have the licensed shorts.
It's a minor point of contention but I think its worth pointing out because it shows that editing the actual footage doesnt seem like something Paramount is willing to put in the effort to do. My guess is, under those parameters, they couldnt release Pinwheel at all because *every* episode contains licensed shorts.
I cant speak for Pinwheel because Ive never watched it, but when it comes to Eureeka I wouldn't mind AT ALL if they just cut out the shorts and only aired the puppet segments. I'd much prefer that to not ever seeing the puppet segments from the remaining episodes because of some dumb 5 minute copyrighted clip. The shorts in Eureeka are universally terrible as surviving footage on YouTube proves. They're just an outdated relic from an era where a struggling cable channel had to fill as much time as cheaply as possible.
They probably could put Pinwheel on Paramount+ if they cut the shorts. They did the same thing with Eureeka's Castle. I doubt they will, though.
Also, I don't see what All That has to do with this. This is about the 1979 lineup. All That didn't come until years later.
It seems like, with Eureeka, they didnt cut out the licensed shorts so much as withhold the episodes that contained them. We only have 26 episodes of the third season and all of them are both 22 minutes long and have cutaways to segments of kids playing on a playground or something. My hunch is the rest of S3 plus the first two seasons (which were an hour long) have the licensed shorts.
It's a minor point of contention but I think its worth pointing out because it shows that editing the actual footage doesnt seem like something Paramount is willing to put in the effort to do. My guess is, under those parameters, they couldnt release Pinwheel at all because *every* episode contains licensed shorts.
I cant speak for Pinwheel because Ive never watched it, but when it comes to Eureeka I wouldn't mind AT ALL if they just cut out the shorts and only aired the puppet segments. I'd much prefer that to not ever seeing the puppet segments from the remaining episodes because of some dumb 5 minute copyrighted clip. The shorts in Eureeka are universally terrible as surviving footage on YouTube proves. They're just an outdated relic from an era where a struggling cable channel had to fill as much time as cheaply as possible.
Did those episodes air like that originally? I didn’t watch the show when it was on (or if I did, I was too young to remember it) and I don’t know a lot about it, but I thought all the episodes were made with the shorts originally then later got cut. It happened with Pinwheel previously. Speaking of which, Paramount+ wouldn’t need to edit the shorts out of Pinwheel because cuts without them already exist. I did mention that in another post, but I wasn’t that clear in the one you quoted. Same with Eureeka’s Castle if those episodes were edited because it aired like that on Noggin.
With Paramount+ bringing Eureeka's Castle and a bunch of other lost media "holy grails" into the mainstream again, I decided to check if some of these might have been saved also. No dice, unfortunately. Not even Pinwheel.
Most of these programs sound like they were just glorified clip shows of old film serials and recycled cartoons. They would be of no interest to anyone today except for their historical value. They still absolutely ought to be saved, but I won't exactly be marathoning them if they do. It's almost certainly a combination of copyright for the licensed footage, plus the (correct) assumption that no one will actually watch them that's holding up their release on Paramount+. Further complicating matters is that Nickelodeon used to be owned by Warner Bros when a lot of these first-generation programs were airing. When Nickelodeon was sold to Viacom, did that include the rights for these shows or does Warner Bros still retain them? I don't know, but that could be another factor in their non-appearance over the years.
Yeah, a lot of the shows they aired in their first year were taking pre-existing content and putting an original framing device around them. I think the only two that weren't were America Goes Bananaz (which I'm just realizing isn't on this list for some reason) and Video Comics. Nick didn't have much of a budget back then. They actually could do Pinwheel and Nickel Flicks to an extent. They dropped the acquired shorts from Pinwheel sometime in 1989 so they could release it on Paramount+ like that (although I personally wouldn't like it as much that way), and some of what was on Nickel Flicks is in the public domain. I doubt we'll be seeing either though, especially the latter. And it does seem the rights for their shows during the Warner years did transfer over to Viacom. They definitely still own Pinwheel and presumably Nickel Flicks, By The Way, and Hocus Focus as well. I'm not sure about Video Comics and America Goes Bananaz though because they were originally QUBE shows. And I could be wrong, but I think Michael Nesmith owns PopClips (which as mentioned is a 1980 show but thought I should clear that one up since it's on this list anyway).
Hmmm... you know what, what you said kind of means that there's some truth into my theory that, back in the 1950s to mid-1980s, cable networks had budgets that were too low to make shows as good as the ones that were airing on ABC, CBS, NBC, & other regular networks at the time. The only one that was able to keep on such a budget was the Disney Channel, & even then, Disney was already a crazy popular brand in the US, & some Disney shows aired on regular television like Adventures of the Gummi Bears, DuckTales, The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, & let's not forget about One Saturday Morning. I would assume Nickelodeon was one of the lucky few cable channels back then to have somewhat of a higher budget than other cable-exclusive networks at the time which would've had the budgets of public access shows.
That's probably why they never got to get any "Nicktoons" back in those times too. They did try one with Video Dream Theatre, but I'd assume the budget was WAYYY too high for that at the time, & it thus became the more budget-friendly Video Comics.